I CAN RELATE .
This is a journey .

Use pip-less dice so you focus on how the dice look in the air and when they land and not on any numbers that would have come up.

Glue 2 dice together to form a "log." This help you focus on grip and release. If you are off at all the "log" will noticeably wobble in the air.

Practice target shooting. Get a small bowl, 4" or 5" in diameter. Practice landing the dice in the bowl. Out of 10 pair of dice thrown , you should be consistently landing 15+ in the bowl.

Those things being said, I personally noticed my greatest improvement came after taking my first refresher course.

First, put down the dice and read "Casino Craps Shoot to Win".

Build a receiving station for about a $100 then a throwing station for half that. (you could buy both from GTC) Practice setting the dice for 2 weeks and finding your grip.
Then start throwing. Don’t worry about anything but getting a good toss, record results and expect to roll 5000 rolls before things will be apparent.

The course is an investment in yourself. It would you a lot of grief and keep you from having to start over to correct the bad things you do initially.
You can get from here to there on your own, I did. Eventually took the primer and now a video class. Refresher will be next for me. Save your money, take the class and I know you will not regret it. Seems like a long journey and it is. Make it easier on yourself and your pocketbook.

LLAP

OMC

Have you read old posts ?
When I first got on this site I went back and read all of the posts . It took some time but was worth it . There is a lot of questions that you may have that may be answered there .Along with a lot of info .
This is a journey that may or may not get want you hoped for .
I would not worry about your SRR for now or not for a few years .
I remember there was a guy on this site that said his SRR WAS 24 .He is no longer on here but I dont think that it was real at least not in the long time of things .
I HOPE THAT YOU ENJOY THIS JOURNEY .
Good Rolling. 🙂 🙂

Find someone around you and see what it takes so you can decide what level you want to go to, better yet coming to a meet and greet is the ideal way to go.

Level one player just want to have fun this is about 75% of those out there only requirement is to find people that like the same food as you and are free when you are go to get togethers they are there.

level2 this is a player who at times has a slight edge over the casino but still is basically random, this requires practice and some kind of coaching this about 17% of the people out there.

level 3 the few that can actually control the dice this requires classes coaching daily practice for the first 2 years 30 minutes minimum daily, and coaching threw out the journey.

Over the 7 plus years I have been doing this I have only meet about17 to 20 people that have control over the dice when they are on it is not easy.

I have meet and played with hundreds, from all camps.

The bottom line is no one can tell where you are at without seeing your shot the next meet and greet is in June in Vegas be there.

JoelB—Rose and Doc have been there. If it had not been for taking additional instruction from time to time we would have probably quit. but we made the commitment and are glad we did. Remember the best of the best on the PGA tour have swing coaches, short game coaches and putting coaching and get instructions from time to time some on a weekly basis. Small imperfections can creep into any athletic endeavor and controlled dice throwing is an athletic activity.

Much of what has been posted on this thread will be of value to you. It is true that without looking at your throw it is hard to tell exactly what you need to do, but here are a few suggestions:

1. Grip–this is the most basic part of the GTC throw as having the dice in your hand is the only time you have 100% control over the dice. So start here. Make sure the 3 fingers are straight across the front of the dice. You can do this by using a practice set such as the 6’s facing away from you. Grip the dice and hold them in front of a "back light" so that you can see through the dice –you can hold in front of a light such as a bright window, ceiling light, or even the TV. Make sure the 3 fingers are lined up on the pips on the dice. Secondly check the thumb placement to make sure the same amount of skin is on each die. Lastly make sure you have an extremely light grip.

2. At set up make sure the dice are square to all sides and the bottom of the table.

3. Place a mirror at the end of your craps table or receiving station so that you can see your entire throw–we use a 24 by 36 inch mirror. Watch your back swing, forward swing and release. Back and froward swing should be straight back and straight forward. Make sure the end of the fingers are level at release and you hold the "C grip" thought the entire release. You can see these things as you look in the mirror. Look for good rotation of the dice as rotation is what gives you control over the dice. Have your wife or girl friend (but not both at the same time) use your Ipad with the Slo Pro app to film your throw. In slow motion you can see so much.

Try these three ideas and see if you don’t see some improvement. You may want to make an entire session working on grip and set up. No throwing the dice. Then another session throwing toward the mirror watching your entire throw. After you feel comfortable with these three items you can start throwing the dice.

The one thing you do not want to do is just throw the dice, seeing the results are not what you want with the dice going all over the place and keeping throwing with some sort of imperfection as you will end of with incorrect muscle memory. Review notes from the class, reread the GTC book "Craps Shoot To Win" to get ideas.

Lastly and most important, do come to a class weekend and take the refresher course, an elite video, or a tune up from Mr. Finesse. At the very least come to the open house on Friday and an instructor will take a 5 minute look and give you a couple of pointers. The best is to immerse yourself in the weekend with a refresher course. The investment will pay for itself many times over.

We have rambled enough so will close for now. Take some of these ideas and use them in your practice sessions and come see us later this year. The sooner the better as we can really help you.

Rose and Doc

All great points Doc!

Thanks for the replies, support and ideas. While I can’t make Vegas in June, maybe a course is in the future. Until then I’m in for the journey and will continue to work at it.

Thanks!
Joel

Joel,

Whatever it is that is in the way, move it. Come to Memphis in April. If you practice as much as you say it will pay for itself within a weekend.

I could not make AC in January. Got a personal training. Expensive… unless you count that I am, 9 weeks later, up about 3x that amount. Yes, I practice like hell. Yes, I video myself throwing and compare it to the video I bought on this site — but if you want to be a pro you have to work to be good enough to get paid.

Call Golden Touch, make arrangements. Keep in mind, practice does not make perfect unless it is perfect practice. From what you posted you have everything in place but a wrong idea about something or you would be throwing better. I know, it is what I had. Get live tutoring one way or the other. Costs less in time and money than the losses and anguish you have after.

Jesse

Joel All of us have been down this road and as has been stated by others this is a journey. I have been on the verge of giving this up a few times but I stuck with it and now I am successful more often than not. Get to an open house, talk to the instructors and meet other students. We are all students learning new aspects of this activity all the time. We have all been frustrated at one time or another. " An inch is a cinch and if a yard seems hard I’ll keep inching along till I get there". Also, in the past five years I have met several players who profess to be self taught but not one demonstrated a consistent shot. They have great stories of what happened last time. If you really are serious about learning a "controlled shot" give serious consideration to taking the class. In my case it has been well worth the time and money not to mention all the wonderful people I have met and great times I’ve had along the way. I made a post last year about having a plan when you play. I was going to post a link to it but couldn’t find it. In short I always try to have a plan such as when and where, how much of a spread I will start with etc. It takes some of the decision making out of my mind while I’m playing letting me focus on the fundementals and making a good shot.

Butcher,

I am mostly self taught. I took the primer in 2014 hoping that I might learn something significant that I might have missed. With additional practice
I have improved my game that is leading to me throwing much more effectively. A small change in my throw has begun to show promise and I think that the refresher will put me over the top for my own expectations. I have closely followed GTC since 2008.

IMHO taking a primer class for new devotees will help them move forward faster. Taking additional classes will, over time, be beneficial. I believe that
quality instruction like GTC provides will make most anyone reach their personal goals in craps play.

Very few self-taught players will play as well as educated ones but there are exceptions. GTC has enhanced what I have done so I will continue
to get coaching as needed.

OneMoonCircles

See post under Working the Plan that Butcher was looking for.

Noah

OMC, I can only add to your post to your thread—well said.

Rose and Doc

I know that sometimes when our students say to take a course and your learning curve will be faster it might sound like they are drumming up business for us. As the primary principle in Golden Touch, I can’t tell those how much I appreciate it.

The significance in what they are saying about the learning curve being faster is true, but my heart warms up when they also say how great the instructors are and the Friendship that have grown for this group. Remember that no one would recommend something this much if it wasn’t the real thing. I always have said that instead of the multiple $300 by in’s at the casino that the self taught person is wasting, take 3 of those by in’s and invest in a class.

Actually today is the last day for a fantastic promotion that we are running to all those on our email list. Not sure if you got it,but if you didn’t I am sending it to you via the email that you have listed for this forum. If anyone else didn’t get it, send me an email to
domthedominatorgtc@gmail.com and I will forward it. Today is the last day for the great discount

Dom

There’s absolutely NO POSSIBLE WAY that I’d be able to do what I’ve done w/o the GTC classes and then meeting GTC friends and having them help me …. and being able to have instructors on "speed dial" for fast, friendly advice and support is unbeatable

Thanks to all that have helped me over the past 2-year journey — it’s going to get even better in the future

And — I still need to post the trip report for the #50 in AC last weekend (and, thanks to my GTC friends that came along to celebrate with me….you guys are AWESOME !!!)