\nThis does not really get good or make sense until you get to the bottom.<\/p>\n
\tThere was talk about a "release." I wrote:<\/p>\n
\tEven that you are thinking of a release lets everyone listening know you are doing some sort of flip with your fingers and do not have a full understanding of the, hold the dice so loose they come out on their own.<\/p>\n \tYou likely have a misunderstanding of "throwing" the dice.<\/p>\n \tI know. I did. Mr Finesse cleared up the misunderstanding one day and it was like someone lifting a veil — and I was doing well before that. Since… fantastic.<\/p>\n \tThere is no "release." Even thinking it will screw up the dice.<\/p>\n \tGo to Shreeveport and ask Finesse about it again. You will quickly win back enough to cover the trip and seminar when he, or someone else, clears that up for you.<\/span><\/p>\n \tSkinny wrote:<\/p>\n \tDo you think toss gets the idea across better? If not, what word would you use? \tI wrote: \tNo, "toss" also implies some sort of activity with the hand.<\/p>\n \t"Deliver the dice," lob the dice" – that one "lob" seems to convey the idea but might have people delivering the dice short often – "Cast" might work as that is an arm thing not a hand thing but, how many understand "cast" that way?<\/p>\n \t"Propel," no. Too many ways to imagine that.<\/p>\n \tNope. Wearing out the thesaurus all I can find that fits well is "lob." \tNow here is a thought: Everyone should know the toothpick drill (search if you do not) BUT, how many keep their fingers TIGHTLY together when they LOB the dice so the dice fulcrum out evenly? <\/p>\n \tDid "lob" work there for everyone, anyone??<\/p>\n \tGotta thank Skinny for asking about a word. Sillily, I would have never checked a thesaurus to get a word that works for me and, hopefully, others without his question.<\/p>\n \tI we are ever at a seminar or anywhere else together Skinny, remind me I owe you a dinner.<\/p>\n \tThanks, \tI would love to take credit but this is basic stuff that Dom teaches in lecture #1 and that Mr. Finesse hit me over the head hard enough with that I got it.<\/p>\n Posted by:<\/strong> TommyC on August 21, 2015, 2:26 am<\/p>\n Posted by:<\/strong> JesJac on August 21, 2015, 2:47 am<\/p>\n \tAnyway, just been out to the table to practice. "Lob" does not work for me. When I think "lob" I keep leaving it short. "Swing" seems to do it.<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n Posted by:<\/strong> Skinny on August 21, 2015, 4:15 am<\/p>\n \tThe first definition of swing works well:<\/p>\n \t1. to cause to move to and fro, sway, or oscillate, as something suspended from above: Posted by:<\/strong> JesJac on August 21, 2015, 12:12 pm<\/p>\n \tSwing arm and hold the dice loose enough to let the dice come out of my hand is the way I have been thinking about it. Had the "swing" but not "let the dice exit."<\/p>\n \tI will let you know if thinking of it that way that helps my throw. Enough of these 20s, I need a 50. Of course, then I will need a 60 etc. \ud83d\ude42<\/p>\n \tThanks.<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n Posted by:<\/strong> Mr Finesse on August 21, 2015, 12:33 pm<\/p>\n Posted by:<\/strong> Dominator on August 21, 2015, 2:21 pm<\/p>\n \tWe say in class that your thumb will "release: from te dice naturally and the forward energy that has been put on the dice will continue through out and naturally roll off your fingers. Then we talk about how your follow through needs to be exactly as you pick up the dice with your fingers together. The tooth pick trick works to help in this. Put a tooth pick between your index finger and middle finger, and between your middle finger and and your ring finger. From the pick up to the release and through the follow threw those tooth picks shuld stay between your fingers.<\/p>\n \tAll this should be natural without any thought involved. No flipping of the wrist at the end as the dice are released. We always say in the lecture and through out the seminar to "Trust the GTC Throw". What we mean is that if you pick up the dice the way we say, and follow through with a straight line to the back wall, you do not need to add anything to the toss. All the forces of nature will take over and od the right thing. That is why you need to ne 110% perfect with your grip. We stress grip because that is where it all starts and ends. The grip creates the fulcrum for the energy that is created with the forward swing to have the dice stay on axis and get to the bak wall. No need to do anything extra.<\/p>\n \tAs you can see Iused the word release in my write up. Using the words like exit, or lob or anything else in thie discussion just wouldn’t fit.<\/p>\n \tAs we stay in class, stop thinking so much and just throw those dice the way you are taught \ud83d\ude42 <\/p>\n \tDominator<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n Posted by:<\/strong> Skinny on August 23, 2015, 4:12 am<\/p>\n \tIt is funny. This entire topic reminds me of the discussions we used to have over lunch where we would talk about different aspects of the game ad nauseum. Everyone would assist in the analysis and in the end we would have a solid basis for the subject being discussed.<\/p>\n \tReading this thread and what you wrote has made me give a lot of thought to the mechanics of the swing. You know how I love the cerebral aspect of pondering these type of issues.<\/p>\n \tI believe you are spot on in your explanation. Especially when you say there is a release involved. Specifically, I appreciated your opening, <\/p>\n IMHO, the word release is the correct word. You release a ball in pitching. Releasing is what we do, but you should not think of releasing the dice. In our very first lecture we talk about how you shouldn’t think about the release. it is a natural thing. As we swing our hand backward we are creating energy, and then as we go forward on our swing we are creating forward energy.<\/p>\n \tWe say in class that your thumb will "release" from the dice naturally and the forward energy that has been put on the dice will continue through out and naturally roll off your fingers.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n \n\tI only have one subtle change to suggest but I think it is significant and I will explain why. I believe rather than saying "your thumb will ‘release’ from the dice naturally", we should say "the dice<\/strong><\/u> will ‘release’ from your thumb naturally".<\/p>\n \tYou see when I analyzed the mechanics, we know the dice are gripped primarily by the thumb and middle finger with the ring and index fingers lightly touching the dice for stability and to get the proper rotation at release (there’s that word again) as you also explain later in your post. You want the thumb and index finger to grip the dice as lightly as possible so that they do not fall out of your hand but no tighter than necessary to prevent that from happening. We also know you do not want to open your fingers or lighten your grip throughout any part of the swing of the dice and especially not at the release. You want the grip pressure to be the same while the dice are in your hand and after they have left your hand.<\/p>\n \tWhat that means is your grip remains constant (no change in tightness or pressure on the dice through the entire swing) as the energy created by the forward swing cause the dice to "release" from the thumb first and then roll off the fingers second. By looking at it this way I think one is less likely to open up ones hand because it is the dice doing the "releasing" not the thumb.<\/p>\n \tAt the moment of release it is the dice that release from the thumb and then they gently roll off the fingers.<\/p>\n \tSee by describing it that way one does not have to think about releasing the thumb. The only thing necessary is a consistent grip and the dice will release themselves naturally from the forward energy generated by the swing. I believe this accomplishes exactly what you describe when you say, <\/p>\n you should not think of releasing the dice<\/p><\/blockquote>\n and <\/p>\n stop thinking so much and just throw those dice<\/p><\/blockquote>\n .<\/p>\n \tThe reason being that you are not actually releasing the dice, the dice are releasing themselves!<\/p>\n \tAnd thanks for getting me to change my opinion about what word to use. IMHO, the word release is the correct word. \ud83d\ude2e <\/p>\n \tThoughts?<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n Posted by:<\/strong> OneMoonCircles on August 23, 2015, 5:21 am<\/p>\n \tOMC<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n Posted by:<\/strong> DoughBoy on August 23, 2015, 6:19 pm<\/p>\n Posted by:<\/strong> brothelman on August 27, 2015, 1:53 pm<\/p>\n Posted by:<\/strong> JesJac on August 28, 2015, 2:30 am<\/p>\n \tHe will likely step on the gas pedal a bit faster, deeper and maybe harder than otherwise… If you offered him enough or were previously a big tipper.<\/p>\n \tIf not, he will probably ignore the comment.<\/p>\n \t\ud83d\ude42<\/p>\n \tJJJ<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n Posted by:<\/strong> JesJac on August 28, 2015, 3:14 am<\/p>\n \tAfter all that and a few long throwing sessions Dom, of course, has it. "Release" is indeed the word that fits. <\/p>\n \tHowever, the talk involving "thinking of… release" is the issue. As Dom noted, you do not "release" the dice in the sense of an action. The word is not a verb in this usage — see below.<\/p>\n \tIn this case the word "release" is not the verb form. It is the noun. The definition applicable (silly not to have looked this one up first — I can hear Tommy C laughing at me all the way down in Shreveport – sorry I could not make it. Miss everyone.) From merriam-webster.com "Release" the act of allowing something to escape<\/p>\n \tSo, the grip is so loose that when the arm swings (Hi Skinny) and, hopefully, the angle is correct, the dice release or escape from the grip. <\/p>\n \tNow back to the original, from Doughboy, "Now what I detected in my release using the three finger grip was that my index finger wants to point on the release."<\/p>\n \tSo everyone, me included, maybe me especially, missed that the issue is not the "release" but the change of the grip before the dice have already released. Notice it is the dice that release not, we release the dice.<\/p>\n \tIf you watch the video from the GTC site in slow motion, (yes, the throws are shown in slow motion and you can slow them more or all if you have the software) Anyway, if you watch them in slow motion, you will note that the grips of the throwers on the video (starting with Stickman at 30:08) do not change until AFTER the dice have released. The instructions are, "hold them gently and let the forward momentum take the dice from your grip."<\/p>\n \tTHAT was what I got and led to my big wins. I had lost it. Glad this conversation occurred — I now have it back. Grip stays the same dice "release" from that grip.<\/p>\n \tThis makes Dom’s point even more accurate. It also makes the point that I and others had a misunderstood word in "release." It is not a verb. It is not a release — as in an action. It is the release — a noun — the point in time when the vector (which is both, force and direction) is just right so the dice escape the STILL IN SAME POSITION grip.<\/p>\n \tWhich is funny because that is what I concentrated on before and during the Vegas trip in June. A consistent winner there until the last day when, like the silly guy I sometimes am, I assumed it was working well on automatic and I stopped doing the things I need to do to have the dice come out of my grip (release) correctly — the main thing of which for me was and still is, <\/p>\n \tI cannot put it on automatic because it does not stay that way. I have to concentrate on keeping that grip the same all the time — at least for me, for now. That is the thing to practice. Of course, I can hear Finesse laughing ruefully because that is the point he tried to make and that I was a bit too thick to get at the time. Thanks.<\/p>\n \tKEEPING THE DAMN GRIP THE SAME UNTIL AFTER THE DICE ARE GONE. Golfers baseball hitters and pitchers as well as tennis and table tennis and every other good athletes recognize this because to create a consistent shot or action — which is the key to success in all those areas, the components of what must be the same until after the ball is gone is the same basic principle.<\/p>\n \tSo, what Dom says, and Mr. Finesse has reiterated more times than should be necessary except to people who have a basic misunderstanding is, practice that grip to get it right. Then, keep the grip that way until well after the dice are released (gone).<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n Posted by:<\/strong> brothelman on August 29, 2015, 4:49 pm<\/p>\n Posted by:<\/strong> brothelman on August 29, 2015, 6:33 pm<\/p>\n \tTrust is good.<\/p>\n \tMuscle memory is the best so learn good habits in the beginning, so you do not have to go back and change them.<\/p>\n \tThe best hitters in baseball have a pure swing nothing complicated, as Kevin Costner says in bull Durham get out of your head meat.<\/p>\n \tThey teach you to stay home and practice for 6 months to a year why, muscle memory so you do not have to think at the table.<\/p>\n \tThinking at the table is tuff it causes doubt, doubt causes 7s.<\/p>\n \tTrust is something created over time at the practice table.<\/p>\n \tGood luck this is a great thing when it is working.<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n Posted by:<\/strong> brothelman on August 29, 2015, 6:46 pm<\/p>\n Posted by:<\/strong> JesJac on August 29, 2015, 6:50 pm<\/p>\n Posted by:<\/strong> brothelman on August 30, 2015, 2:25 am<\/p>\n Posted by:<\/strong> brothelman on August 30, 2015, 3:09 am<\/p>\n Posted by:<\/strong> OneMoonCircles on August 30, 2015, 4:00 am<\/p>\n \tOMC<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n Posted by:<\/strong> brothelman on August 30, 2015, 6:21 am<\/p>\n \tWe are all not built for the perfect cookie cutter throw like doc, stick,and dice pilot, the rest of us have to adapt a little.<\/p>\n \tWhen I say I find it entertaining that means I appreciate it.<\/p>\n \n\tI remember one of the biggest complaints from newbies was that each instructor had something different to say, very few of them looked at it like wow I got all these different answers what one works best for me, that is this thread someone out there looking for what works best for them but all the answers here are funny yes very funny.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n Posted by:<\/strong> JesJac on August 30, 2015, 8:31 am<\/p>\n \tYour think players at that level are just lucky our working in natural talent?<\/p>\n \tHa!<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n Posted by:<\/strong> brothelman on August 30, 2015, 5:43 pm<\/p>\n Posted by:<\/strong> SevenTimesSeven on August 31, 2015, 2:22 pm<\/p>\n \tA word spawns a thousand pictures. \tEach one of us must internalize, visualize and execute their own unique grip and throw as \tThe thumb does not actively ‘release’ the dice but it allows the dice to escape the grip.<\/p>\n \tThe forward accelerating swing with its rotational centrigugal force in your upswing \tAn interesting and very useful topic this is. Posted by:<\/strong> TheLion on September 1, 2015, 2:51 am<\/p>\n \tTherefore, I’ve had to work around the issues, find what works best for me "grip-wise" — and, through perseverance and my competitiveness, I did what I can do and have achieved some level of success<\/p>\n \tBut, wow, it’s a real journey, without a doubt<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" This does not really get good or make sense until you get to the bottom. There was talk about a "release." I wrote: Even that you are thinking of a release lets everyone listening know you are doing some sort…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":151,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[9],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-9064","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-craps"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/forumarchives.tmsites.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/9064","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/forumarchives.tmsites.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/forumarchives.tmsites.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/forumarchives.tmsites.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/151"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/forumarchives.tmsites.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=9064"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/forumarchives.tmsites.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/9064\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/forumarchives.tmsites.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=9064"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/forumarchives.tmsites.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=9064"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/forumarchives.tmsites.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=9064"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}
\n\t<\/span><\/p>\n
\n\tHi Skinny,<\/p>\n
\n\tWord Origin & History
\n\tlob — "send up in a slow, high arc," 1824 (implied in lobbing), but the word existed earlier suggesting "heavy, pendant, or floppy things,"<\/span><\/p>\n
\n\tJesse<\/p>\n
\nReplies:<\/h3>\n
\n\tto swing one’s arms in walking.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n\tI believe that if you think too much about release it breeds a problem. As someone has said here "trust your throw". Give in to the moment.<\/p>\n
\n\tA, will he get it there quickly?
\n\tb, Will he step on the pizza with his foot so I now have a cheesy mess with dirt for texture?<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n\t\/\u0259\u02c8semblij\/
\n\tnoun
\n\tnoun: assemblage; plural noun: assemblage
\n\ta collection or gathering of things or people.
\n\t"a wondrous assemblage of noble knights, cruel temptresses, and impossible loves"
\n\tsynonyms: collection, accumulation, conglomeration, gathering, group, grouping, cluster, aggregation, mass, number; More
\n\tassortment, selection, array, miscellany
\n\t"an assemblage of protestors"
\n\t\u2022a machine or object made of pieces fitted together.
\n\tsome vast assemblage of gears and cogs
\n\ta work of art made by grouping found or unrelated objects<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n\tWe each get a different image from a word unless the word word is defined.
\n\tRecall the saying that a picture is worth a thousand words, or someting like that.<\/p>\n
\n\ta single integrated and fluid process and not as separate factors.<\/p>\n
\n\tto achieve the 45 degree arc will allow the dice to fly away with rotations toward the target,
\n\twith their center of mass below the finger tips which are acting as a fulcrum for the ratation.<\/p>\n
\n\tAt the heart of the GTC throw.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n