{"id":1152,"date":"2012-08-08T06:58:47","date_gmt":"2012-08-08T06:58:47","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/forumarchives.tmsites.net\/index.php\/2012\/08\/08\/competition\/"},"modified":"2012-08-08T06:58:47","modified_gmt":"2012-08-08T06:58:47","slug":"competition","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/forumarchives.tmsites.net\/index.php\/2012\/08\/08\/competition\/","title":{"rendered":"Competition"},"content":{"rendered":"


\nCompetition is heating up in Colorado! Fire bet and sharpshooter bet being tested at 4 different casinos in Blackhawk and Central City. One Blackhawk casino has gone to 3X on the 12.<\/p>\n

\tPlayer controlled bets for the dealers are a reality on the books but not implemented yet. However, I will address the Gaming Commission on this issue as they have failed in their fiduciary duty. If allowed to stand as is it will be a hell of a mess. The Commissioners don’t have a clue, until I get there. I have 2 weeks to prepare and have most of my thoughts in my head so just have to get them down on paper.<\/p>\n

\tAlso will prepare my argument for Table A from Wizard of Odds for the fire bet should they decide to adopt it after the testing. Now I am going to look at the Wizard for sharpshooter info as well and may prepare papers on that.<\/p>\n

\tMakes me wonder how many will get 3x on the 2 or 12 to remain competitive!?<\/p>\n

\tAs always, change, some for the better and some not.<\/p>\n

\tOneMoonCircles<\/p>\n

\n

Replies:<\/h3>\n
\n

Posted by:<\/strong> Guest on August 8, 2012, 4:17 pm<\/p>\n

\n

OneMoonCircles said: One Blackhawk casino has gone to 3X on the 12.<\/p>\n

\tMakes me wonder how many will get 3x on the 2 or 12 to remain competitive!?<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

\tForgive my ignorance, but is that a Place Bet?<\/p>\n

\tIs there one for the 3 and 11?<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Posted by:<\/strong> ACPA on August 8, 2012, 4:28 pm<\/p>\n

I suspect that is 3 instead of 2 on the 12\/2 in the field.<\/p>\n

\tNoah<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Posted by:<\/strong> Guest on August 8, 2012, 8:06 pm<\/p>\n

Ahh, that makes sense Noah.<\/p>\n

\tI’ve been watching so much Olympics that I have the scoring of so many different games garbled together in my mind.<\/p>\n

\tI attempted to make a meaningful spreadsheet on the Sharp Shooter bet while watching Soccer, Basketball, and gymnastics. The chart made no sense and neither did I. Won’t post that chart!<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Posted by:<\/strong> Stephen C on August 9, 2012, 12:13 am<\/p>\n

No Crapless tables here in Colorado. 2 or 12 in Field pays 3 for one is what OMC is talking about. $5 field earns 15 on the 2 or 12.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n

Posted by:<\/strong> Guest on August 9, 2012, 12:21 am<\/p>\n

I saw that casino where you can get 3x on the 12. We could probably get some of the other best rollers (aside from guys like you OMC) if we cold get the table max above 100 lol. I would hope for higher payouts as a means to compete with other casinos… it would be nice if the best bets got best pay. My wife hates that I dont bet the field anymore. She said we used to have more money coming home when you bet the field even if the books say dont. I get confused sometimes about what bets are best for sure…<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n

Posted by:<\/strong> Guest on August 9, 2012, 12:36 am<\/p>\n

My wife would also wish I would bet the Field!<\/p>\n

Mike-ro-wave said: I get confused sometimes about what bets are best for sure…<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

\n\tSensible Bets<\/strong>
\n\tPass<\/span><\/u><\/strong>
\n\t[list]Multiple Roll Bet<\/strong>[\/list][list]1.41%<\/strong><\/span> House Advantage[\/list]
\n\tDon’t Pass<\/span><\/u><\/strong>
\n\t[list]Multiple Roll Bet<\/strong>[\/list][list]1.36% or 1.40%<\/strong><\/span> House Advantage[\/list]
\n\tCome<\/span><\/u><\/strong>
\n\t[list]Multiple Roll Bet<\/strong>[\/list][list]1.41%<\/strong><\/span> House Advantage[\/list]
\n\tDon’t Come<\/span><\/u><\/strong>
\n\t[list]Multiple Roll Bet<\/strong>[\/list][list]1.36% or 1.40%<\/strong><\/span> House Advantage[\/list]
\n\tPlace 6 or 8<\/span><\/u><\/strong>
\n\t[list]Multiple Roll Bet<\/strong>[\/list][list]1.52%<\/strong><\/span> House Advantage[\/list]
\n\tBuy 4 or 10(Commission on win)<\/span><\/u><\/strong>
\n\t[list]Multiple Roll Bet<\/strong>[\/list][list]1.67%<\/strong><\/span> House Advantage[\/list]
\n\tOdds 0n Pass, Don’t Pass, Come, and Don’t Come<\/span><\/u><\/strong>
\n\t[list]Multiple Roll Bet<\/strong>[\/list][list]0.00%<\/strong><\/span> House Advantage[\/list]<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Posted by:<\/strong> Guest on August 9, 2012, 11:05 pm<\/p>\n

I understand the general idea of what the good bets are. They revolve around the math. For the math to play out you need large numbers though. The 7 will show up according to the math if you could analyze all the rolls in a casino on a particular day, modified by controlled shooters, but any particular roll is going to have rolls that do not match the math exactly. Someone within a space of an hour may see someone roll 12 three or four times and it may not appear again for hours. It is the law of large numbers, and even if you have a monster roll like the Captain (100+) you still do not have what a Statistician would call large numbers. Any particular roll would be too small for statistical analysis. So the edge only grinds against you in the largest picture. So it seems like betting some of the "bad bets" might make money if done sparringly. Does anyone agree?
\n\tNote: I am a huge fan of GTC and want to get autograph posters of the teachers to hang on the wall. I am trying to strive to follow the teachings, I am just still gambler enough not to see the harm in betting outside the scope once in a while.<\/p>\n

\tI liked putting a dollar on the sharpshooter bet, even though I rarely make 3 points or more, because it is only a dollar and I waste larger amounts on stupid stuff even when I am not at the table, but I thought it was the same as someone taking odds. I never take odds if the shooter doesnt have any because I do not believe he has any confidence. I want to show the Universe that I believe it can happen. Am I still crazy then??
\n\t(Yes is an acceptable answer btw) \ud83d\ude42<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Posted by:<\/strong> ACPA on August 9, 2012, 11:39 pm<\/p>\n

As has been posted here before, on a particular trip, as you say, anything can happen.<\/p>\n

\tHowever, if you go a a casino often enough then it does nt take many trips to start to approach the long term. <\/p>\n

\tYou can be an advantage player by betting like GTC advises or you can be a Gambler and hope you catch a long run.<\/p>\n

\tIt’s your money so do whatever you want.<\/p>\n

\tNoah<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Posted by:<\/strong> brothelman on August 9, 2012, 11:48 pm<\/p>\n

What is the house edge with the 2 and 12 paying three two one in the field?<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n

Posted by:<\/strong> Stickman on August 10, 2012, 12:07 am<\/p>\n

House edge on the Field Bet:
\n\tBoth 2 and 12 paying 2:1 = 5.56 percent
\n\tEither 2 or 12 paying 3:1 with the other paying 2:1 = 2.78 percent
\n\tBoth 2 and 12 paying 3:1 = 0.00 percent<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n

Posted by:<\/strong> brothelman on August 10, 2012, 5:15 am<\/p>\n

so they are saying that both pay 3 to one that makes them every bit as good as odds?<\/p>\n

\tNow if you have some form of control this is a bet that can be beat up and down.<\/p>\n

\tsmart craps will tell you what set is best ffor you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Posted by:<\/strong> Guest on August 10, 2012, 1:01 pm<\/p>\n

Using Units instead of fractions, decimal and percent<\/span><\/strong> <\/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n
Field Bet with Two Bonus on the 2 and 12 or the 2 and 12 pay triple<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/tr>\n
Toss Results<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\nFrequency<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\nWin\/Loss<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\nNet Results<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/tr>\n
2<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\n1 x<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\nWin 3 Units<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\n+ 3 Units<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/tr>\n
3<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\n2 x<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\nWin 1 Unit<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\n+ 2 Units<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/tr>\n
4<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\n3 x<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\nWin 1 Unit<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\n+ 3 Units<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/tr>\n
5<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\n4 x<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\nLose 1 Unit<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\n– 4 Units<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/tr>\n
6<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\n5 x<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\nLose 1 Unit<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\n– 5 Units<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/tr>\n
7<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\n6 x<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\nLose 1 Unit<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\n– 6 Units<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/tr>\n
8<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\n5 x<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\nLose 1 Unit<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\n– 5 Units<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/tr>\n
9<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\n4 x<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\nWin 1 Unit<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\n+ 4 Units<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/tr>\n
10<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\n3 x<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\nWin 1 Unit<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\n+ 3 Units<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/tr>\n
11<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\n2 x<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\nWin 1 Unit<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\n+ 2 Units<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/tr>\n
12<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\n1 x<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\nWin 3 Units<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\n+ 3 Units<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/tr>\n
Total<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\n36<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/p>\n[\/tds]<\/p>\n– 0 Units<\/span><\/span>[\/tds]<\/tr>\n

[\/tables][clear][\/clear]<\/p>\n

\tField Bet: 2 or 12 pays 3-1<\/strong>
\n\tDon’t feel sorry for the poor casino, they only payout the bonus two times out of thirty-six rolls.
\n\tThey win twenty times<\/strong> while the bettor wins only sixteen times<\/strong>.
\n\tA bonus increases the amount<\/u> of the win, but not the frequency<\/u>.
\n\tMathematically, I can’t equate a bonus with a hit on the number!!!<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

\n

Posted by:<\/strong> Guest on August 10, 2012, 1:15 pm<\/p>\n

\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n
Field Bet: 2 or 12 pays 3-1<\/strong><\/td>\nRandom<\/strong><\/td>\nTimes<\/strong><\/td>\nPayout<\/strong><\/td>\nEquals<\/strong><\/td>\nReturn<\/strong><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
Number Tossed<\/strong><\/td>\nFrequency<\/strong><\/td>\n<\/td>\n<\/td>\n<\/td>\n<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
2<\/strong><\/td>\n1<\/td>\nx<\/td>\n1 + 2*<\/td>\n=<\/td>\n3 Units<\/strong><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
3<\/strong><\/td>\n2<\/td>\nx<\/td>\n1<\/td>\n=<\/td>\n2 Units<\/strong><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
4<\/strong><\/td>\n3<\/td>\nx<\/td>\n1<\/td>\n=<\/td>\n3 Units<\/strong><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
5<\/strong><\/span><\/td>\n4<\/span><\/strong><\/td>\nx<\/td>\n-1<\/td>\n=<\/td>\n-4 Units<\/span><\/strong><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
6<\/strong><\/span><\/td>\n5<\/span><\/strong><\/td>\nx<\/td>\n-1<\/td>\n=<\/td>\n-5 Units<\/span><\/strong><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
7<\/strong><\/span><\/td>\n6<\/span><\/strong><\/td>\nx<\/td>\n-1<\/td>\n=<\/td>\n-6 Units<\/span><\/strong><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
8<\/strong><\/span><\/td>\n5<\/span><\/strong><\/td>\nx<\/td>\n-1<\/td>\n=<\/td>\n-5 Units<\/span><\/strong><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
9<\/strong><\/td>\n4<\/td>\nx<\/td>\n1<\/td>\n=<\/td>\n4 Units<\/strong><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
10<\/strong><\/td>\n3<\/td>\nx<\/td>\n1<\/td>\n=<\/td>\n3 Units<\/strong><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
11<\/strong><\/td>\n2<\/td>\nx<\/td>\n1<\/td>\n=<\/td>\n2 Units<\/strong><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
12<\/strong><\/td>\n1<\/td>\nx<\/td>\n1 + 2*<\/td>\n=<\/td>\n3 Units<\/strong><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
Totals<\/td>\n36<\/strong><\/td>\n.<\/td>\n.<\/td>\n.<\/td>\n0<\/strong><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
Red<\/span> = Player loses<\/strong><\/td>\n20<\/strong><\/span><\/td>\n.<\/td>\n* Equals a bonus<\/td>\n.<\/td>\n.<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/table>\n

\n\tThe House Advantage\/Disadvantage will vary according to your ability and dice set.<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Competition is heating up in Colorado! Fire bet and sharpshooter bet being tested at 4 different casinos in Blackhawk and Central City. One Blackhawk casino has gone to 3X on the 12. Player controlled bets for the dealers are a…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":58,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[9],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-1152","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-craps"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/forumarchives.tmsites.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1152","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/forumarchives.tmsites.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/forumarchives.tmsites.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/forumarchives.tmsites.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/58"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/forumarchives.tmsites.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1152"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/forumarchives.tmsites.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1152\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/forumarchives.tmsites.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1152"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/forumarchives.tmsites.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1152"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/forumarchives.tmsites.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1152"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}