https:\/\/www.goldentouchcraps.com\/article.php?p=skinny0007.shtml<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Posted by:<\/strong> Dominator on August 24, 2020, 1:19 pm<\/p>\n\n
It is a great article Skinny! All should read it!<\/p>\n
Dom<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Posted by:<\/strong> Dr Crapology on August 24, 2020, 1:21 pm<\/p>\n\n
Skinny, you are so right.\u00a0 Since you have to count the chips in the rail not what’s on the table.\u00a0 Never reduce or take down your bets in the middle of a good roll.\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n
Skinny and Dom, when we first started playing craps we honestly did not bet enough.\u00a0 It took us a while to realize that if we bet too little we were not going to make enough to win but would actually lose money.\u00a0 Thank goodness this was really emphasized in the craps classes.<\/p>\n
Question–However let’s say you are in the middle of a good roll in the 20 to 35 rolls, you make your point and have a come out roll and your odds are returned and you lose the base come bets–however you do win back one of your base come bets since the pass line bet is a winner.\u00a0 Now what do you do:\u00a0 (We are just expanding this thought process for others to review their knowledge on this subject.)<\/p>\n
1.\u00a0 Start all over with come bets and odds.\u00a0 Probably the best option.<\/p>\n
2.\u00a0 Buy back your come bets by making them “put” bets–if you have lots of odds as this brings the house vig down and thia just might be a good move.\u00a0 BUT remember you LOSE the 2 to 1 advantage by not using the come line to establish new bets.<\/p>\n
3.\u00a0 Place\/buy the box numbers and replace the place\/buy with come bets as the box numbers hit.\u00a0 In our humble opinion the worst of the 3 options.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Remember (in the words of Billy the Kid) you may be getting tired and the come out 7 may just be an indication of what may happen in the near future.\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n
Skinny, Dom look forward to your thoughts on this.<\/p>\n
Rose and Doc<\/p>\n
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Posted by:<\/strong> Dr Crapology on August 24, 2020, 1:25 pm<\/p>\n\n
One additional thought.\u00a0 You never need to take down your odds as the odds are never at risk in the long run–why, the odds are an even money bet since the house house no edge on the odds.\u00a0 The worse that can happen in the long run as that you will break even including the odds portion on your pass line \/come bets with random rollers.\u00a0 However we do come way back on our odds bets on random rollers to protect our bank roll.<\/p>\n
\u00a0<\/p>\n
Just an extra thought.<\/p>\n
Can’t wait for Vegas<\/p>\n
Rose and Doc<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Posted by:<\/strong> Dominator on August 24, 2020, 1:46 pm<\/p>\n\n
Thank you Doc for bringing this up. As I say in class, when I have the board covered with comebets and odds and I throw a comeout 7 and all my odds are given back to me, I treat that as a Christmas gift!<\/p>\n
What I mean by this is that if that 7 came one roll later – after I established the new point – I would have lost everything. So when that I happens I just start all over and put up new comebets<\/p>\n
\u00a0<\/p>\n
Dom<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Posted by:<\/strong> Skinny on August 24, 2020, 8:12 pm<\/p>\n\n
For me it depends on where I am on the hand.<\/p>\n
If I have 4 paydays or less I will start all over with my pass line and come bets.<\/p>\n
If I have 5-8 paydays I will put 2 place bets on the 2 numbers that I hit the most.\u00a0 When I hit those numbers with come bets I will use the payout for the odds and leave the place bet up so that I have a double wager on that number.<\/p>\n
If I have more than 8 paydays I will put 4 place bets on the 4 numbers that I am hitting the most and treat them the same as I did above.<\/p>\n
I handle it this way based on the amount of money I have collected because I have a specific goal in mind that requires me to put more money on the table once I have achieved certain goals.<\/p>\n
Here is why I use 4 and 8 paydays for determining how much I am going to put back on the table.<\/p>\n
My objective when I start each hand is to get all the numbers covered with come bets and full odds.\u00a0 With 4 paydays I put an amount into my rails equal to the amount I would have on the table with all the numbers covered with full odds.\u00a0 So until I have that amount in my rails I consider myself still behind on the hand.\u00a0 Once I have 4 paydays I can not lose money on the hand because all my future bets are made with money from wins on bets on the table.<\/p>\n
Thus if I am starting the hand over again with 5-8 paydays I can put a bit back on the table.\u00a0 By using the winnings to fund the odds I am making a bit more from my previous paydays.\u00a0 Even if I get up on a few different numbers and then seven out before any more paydays I will still not lose any money on the hand.\u00a0 But most likely the roll will extend a bit more and I will make a lot more than if I had just started over again.<\/p>\n
I will never consider put bets unless I can put 10X odds or greater.\u00a0 Put bets are better than come bets at different odds depending on the number.\u00a0 But rather than memorizing the different odds for different numbers, I know at 10X or greater odds the put bet provides a lower HA than the come bet.\u00a0 So I use that as a general rule of thumb for all put bets.<\/p>\n
\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Posted by:<\/strong> Dominator on August 25, 2020, 3:56 pm<\/p>\n\n
I do understand where you are coming from Skinny and placing 2 numbers only that you have hit a few times is not a bad idea, I just would rather start the whole process over<\/p>\n
\u00a0<\/p>\n
Dom<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Posted by:<\/strong> HardNine on August 26, 2020, 4:38 pm<\/p>\n\n
Great conversation and I love the article. \u00a0That’s why I ‘play the game’ every time I practice. \u00a0My day starts with the same as my casino live-play buy-in which has increased over time. \u00a0I bet the exact same way as in live play….. no BS!!! \u00a0It’s fun to throw a boat load of money on the table and be able to say “Look! \u00a0I won $10k!” \u00a0But unless you will do it in live play, don’t do it in practice. \u00a0The whole point of practicing with chips is that you eventually know how to handle every situation that comes up and you WON’T GET SCARED in live play. \u00a0That’s what part of Skinny’s article notes, and to me, it’s the head game. \u00a0If you have the bank roll, and plan to play a certain way, with the spread Dom notes in the classes is on the table, your head has to be in the right place to make the progressions.<\/p>\n
I have a friend who was shooting… he had $5 on the fire bet, I had $1. \u00a0We both end up making $1400 on the hand. \u00a0His was from a $1250 payout on the fire and only $150 on bets. \u00a0Mine, however, was only $250 from fire and $1150 on bets. \u00a0The fire is nice, but I need to make money on the hand!!! \u00a0Practice, and the fear isn’t in your head. \u00a0<\/p>\n
The one time earlier this year that I had an opportunity to put 100x behind my 8, I was able to do it without fear because I’ve practiced for that very moment!<\/p>\n
Love this thread!<\/p>\n
Don<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Posted by:<\/strong> Preacher on August 27, 2020, 5:02 am<\/p>\n\n
So much great information and analysis by all.\u00a0I will walk through all of this with my Alabama girl, RollTide4Ever. And, yes, this is well discussed in the excellent Golden Touch Craps weekend seminars, of which RollTide4Ever has not had the benefit. We will remedy this at our earliest opportunity once I have recovered from my much needed back surgery.
Skinny, as usual, mentioned something he does that I had not considered, yet, in my own play. He said, \u201cbecause I have a specific goal in mind that requires me to put more money on the table\u201d.<\/span><\/p>\nA specific goal. I have to admit, when I walk up to the table and take a position, SR1 or SR2, I am thinking, \u201cLet\u2019s see what I can do tonight.\u201d (I\u2019m not the morning person Dr Crapology is.) Of course, I have a betting method, exactly as Dom described and I learned in my GTC weekend seminars. But I can\u2019t say I have a goal, an endgame. This will take some thought, my next step in my GTC journey. I\u2019m excited!<\/p>\n
Hardnine, your approach to practice is exactly the same as mine, and with my lessons and practices with RollTide4Ever, and my youngest son. It\u2019s a technique my family partners have come to appreciate, when I take them to nearby (3 hours) casinos for live experiences. I even put on casino style music – not my preferred, by any means.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Posted by:<\/strong> Skinny on August 27, 2020, 6:23 am<\/p>\n\n
Preacher,<\/p>\n
I want to be sure I did not give you the wrong impression about what I mean by specific goals.\u00a0 I am referring to specific goals with respect to my betting.<\/p>\n
My first objective is to win enough money to equal the amount I would have on the table if I had all the box numbers covered with max odds using come bets.\u00a0 Once I win that amount of money I know I can not possibly lose money on that hand.\u00a0 That money gets locked up in my rails and I don’t put more on the table from my rails so that I can not walk away a loser on this hand.<\/p>\n
My second goal is to win the same amount again so that I will have a profit equal to what I have on the table if I have all the numbers covered with max odds.\u00a0 I now lock that up in my rails as well.<\/p>\n
Hence, if I have all the numbers covered with max odds and seven out I walk away with a net profit equal to what I had on the table.\u00a0 If I have fewer numbers covered when the hand ends, I walk away with a slightly larger net profit.<\/p>\n
But if the hand continues, it is at this point that I need to put more money on the table.\u00a0 However I don’t take anything out of my rails.\u00a0 I take the winnings from future paydays and start putting place bets on the numbers starting with the numbers I am hitting the most.\u00a0 I want to get double bets on all the numbers at this point but if I am not hitting certain numbers I am willing to put more money on the numbers that I am hitting.<\/p>\n
My objective is to put the winnings from the next 6 numbers I hit with single bets on them on the table.\u00a0 If I hit a number that has a double bet or larger on it I keep that as a double hit.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Once I collect an amount from the double hits to equal the 6 bets I am trying to put up on the table I now start putting more money on the table.\u00a0 That is because at this point I will have a net profit in my rails equal to the amount I would have on the table if I have a double wager on each number equal to a come bet with max odds.<\/p>\n
My goal is to win an amount equal to what I have on the table if I have all the number covered, slightly more if I don’t have all the numbers covered.<\/p>\n
Once I get ahead on a hand I want to make future paydays work for me by putting them on the table.\u00a0 I feel compelled to put those winnings on the table because in my rails they can’t make more money for me.\u00a0 So by leaving the money in my rails, I am costing myself money.\u00a0 But I make sure I have locked up a specific profit first.<\/p>\n
It is sort of like the Parable of the Talents.\u00a0 The servants who used the talents to trade and gain profit were rewarded by the master.\u00a0 The servant who hid his one talent returning it to the master was scolded.\u00a0 Furthermore, the servants who made a profit doubled the talents with which they started, making a profit equal to their original talents.<\/p>\n
At the end of a hand if I have double what I have on the table I am very happy.<\/p>\n
\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Posted by:<\/strong> HardNine on August 27, 2020, 12:53 pm<\/p>\n\n
@skinny. Love it! I do similar but not with a hard methodology behind it, except for a progression schedule; this is beyond that! \u00a0I’m going to study this and make some adjustments! \u00a0Thanks!<\/p>\n
Don<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Posted by:<\/strong> Dominator on August 27, 2020, 1:40 pm<\/p>\n\n
Well put Skinny!<\/p>\n
\u00a0<\/p>\n
Dom<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Posted by:<\/strong> DoughBoy on August 29, 2020, 12:59 am<\/p>\n\n
Skinny;<\/p>\n
\u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0I still love the post you wrote on making money on the 10-20 roll hand.<\/p>\n
\u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0I have used your philosophy on securing a win early in the roll. It is a good balance for me between my taste for action and my desire to win. It keeps the game moving fast and The Big Skinny puts me on automatic pilot.<\/p>\n
\u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0Thanks for all your great posts.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Posted by:<\/strong> Dominator on August 29, 2020, 3:25 pm<\/p>\n\n
\n Posted by: @doughboy <\/strong><\/div>\nSkinny;<\/p>\n
\u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0I still love the post you wrote on making money on the 10-20 roll hand.<\/p>\n
\u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0I have used your philosophy on securing a win early in the roll. It is a good balance for me between my taste for action and my desire to win. It keeps the game moving fast and The Big Skinny puts me on automatic pilot.<\/p>\n
\u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0Thanks for all your great posts.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n
Skinny – can you find that post and re-post? It was GREAT!<\/p>\n
\u00a0<\/p>\n
thanks<\/p>\n
Dom<\/p>\n
\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Posted by:<\/strong> Skinny on August 29, 2020, 3:59 pm<\/p>\n\n
@dominator<\/p>\n
I looked for it and could not find it. I think it was in the wisdom forum and I don\u2019t see those posts on the new website.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Posted by:<\/strong> Dominator on August 29, 2020, 4:08 pm<\/p>\n\n
Darn<\/p>\n
Doughboy – did you print it out or could you explain what Skinny said to do?<\/p>\n
\u00a0<\/p>\n
DOm<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Posted by:<\/strong> High Arc on August 29, 2020, 7:11 pm<\/p>\n\n
@dominator \u00a0<\/p>\n
Dom,<\/p>\n
Does Preachers post apply to the 3x 4x 5x odds game?<\/p>\n
\u00a0<\/p>\n
High Arc<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Posted by:<\/strong> Dominator on August 30, 2020, 3:26 pm<\/p>\n\n
\n Posted by: @high-arc <\/strong><\/div>\n@dominator \u00a0<\/p>\n
Dom,<\/p>\n
Does Preachers post apply to the 3x 4x 5x odds game?<\/p>\n
\u00a0<\/p>\n
High Arc<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n
Probably not because he starts with 3X odds and I know he plays mostly in the south where there are many 10X or more odds.<\/p>\n
But it really doesn’t matter, how mush you take in odds to begin with should be a factor of your bankroll<\/p>\n
Dom<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Posted by:<\/strong> DoughBoy on August 30, 2020, 4:48 pm<\/p>\n\n
Dom;<\/p>\n
\u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0I will give it my best shot bowing to any corrections Skinny would make to my depiction. \u00a0<\/p>\n
\u00a0 \u00a0The mathematical reality of anyone that loves this game is that many of our rolls will be in the 10-20 roll range. How do we turn \u00a0these into winning hands?<\/p>\n
\u00a0 \u00a0 Limiting risk is the key. By playing the Big Skinny we use a pass line and a maximum of two come bets and wait for two collections before putting any more at risk. By avoiding the seven and throwing repeaters we build a winning hand quickly. By waiting to put more at risk we quickly establish a winning roll, and hold onto it. Making the point is secondary. This requires patience and a taming of the internal gambler.<\/p>\n
\u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0As the roll progresses I introduce more funds from my winnings rather than my rack. If I can hold back the urge to introduce more of my bankroll to risk, I can build on my win as described previously by Skinny. The amount of odds taken is strictly a question of bankroll as they are an even bet with the house.<\/p>\n
\u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0We all drool for that 40-50 roll hand. Mathematical truth speaks differently. Knowing what to do with that roll when it comes has to be decided ahead of time. In the meantime, turning the 10-20 roll hand into a winner has been made into a mathematical art form by the Big Skinny. Variance is limited, excitement may be limited, but winning regularly is emphasized.<\/p>\n
\u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0This is why I have always loved GTC. Give me the truth about this game and I can deal with the risk with my eyes wide open. If you want to do crazy, be my guest. Just don\u2019t claim to be a victim when the math comes to bite you in the backside.<\/p>\n
\u00a0 \u00a0Using this system Skinny always knows where he is at in his hand. Advantage play is not for everyone. It is a process in discipline. Thanks \u00a0to Dom and Skinny and to those I\u2019ve learned from. DoughBoy<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Posted by:<\/strong> Dr Crapology on August 31, 2020, 11:26 am<\/p>\n\n
Doughboy, you are right on.\u00a0 Thanks for you input.\u00a0 Well done.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Posted by:<\/strong> Dominator on August 31, 2020, 1:19 pm<\/p>\n\n
Well done!<\/p>\n
Dom<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Posted by:<\/strong> Skinny on August 31, 2020, 1:49 pm<\/p>\n\n
DoughBoy,<\/p>\n
\u00a0<\/p>\n
I would not add a thing. You said it well.\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Posted by:<\/strong> Dominator on August 31, 2020, 2:17 pm<\/p>\n\n
One thing from reading this again – In class I say if you want to be aggressive, wait for the two wins\/full collections, (not just a win if you put out a comebet and you throw an 11-that is not a full collection), before you put out another come bet\/4th working bet – (passline and 3 come bets)<\/p>\n
And if you want to be conservative, wait for 3 full collections before you put out that 3rd comebet or 4th working bet.<\/p>\n
Just wanted to clarify<\/p>\n
Dom<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Posted by:<\/strong> Finisher on August 31, 2020, 10:00 pm<\/p>\n\n
I like it when that third come bet stays up on the come for a few rolls tho .<\/p>\n
Good Rolling.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Posted by:<\/strong> Skinny on September 18, 2020, 9:45 pm<\/p>\n\n
\n Posted by: @dominator <\/strong><\/div>\n\n Posted by: @doughboy <\/strong><\/div>\nSkinny;<\/p>\n
\u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0I still love the post you wrote on making money on the 10-20 roll hand.<\/p>\n
\u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0I have used your philosophy on securing a win early in the roll. It is a good balance for me between my taste for action and my desire to win. It keeps the game moving fast and The Big Skinny puts me on automatic pilot.<\/p>\n
\u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0Thanks for all your great posts.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n
Skinny – can you find that post and re-post? It was GREAT!<\/p>\n
\u00a0<\/p>\n
thanks<\/p>\n
Dom<\/p>\n
\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n
I found the post in the Wisdom forum.\u00a0 It was still on the new website.\u00a0 Here is the link:<\/p>\n