Doc, another great reminder of the power of the 5-Count + Come Betting. Thank you for posting. 

During the 5-Count, I’ve had people next to me sometimes ask “are you going to bet?” I always say “… I always like to watch them shoot a little before I go in…”

I can’t count the amount of money I have saved by using the 5-Count. Probably thousands of dollars over the years. 

Right on Chevy

Great post Doc!

Dom

Nice post Doc. I was in AC this past weekend and the exact scenario that you describe I saw happen a few times. All of the tables that evening were all $25.00 buy ins, too much for my pocketbook. The tables were too crowed so I decided that I would play in the morning when the buy ins are less. I instead decided to observe all of the tables. I watched many throw down their paychecks as well as drinks, hoping for a big win. While observing I did the 5 count on many along with watching how they bet. Most were place bettors. No come bettors. I saw quite a few players cover all of the numbers across right after the come out. As I was 5 counting, not many were getting past the 5. Some were 1 or 2 and done. Most did not last long. Some did storm away like the casino twisted their arms to bet the way they did and caused them lose their money. Little do those people know if they had some training on how to bet they might have won some money. It was a great night for the darkside but none were there to take advantage.

 

High Arc 

Players not familiar with the math of the game will be doing this for ever.  If it wasn’t for these players we would not be able to “fly” under the radar with our pass line / come betting with odds. 

Was playing with a friend several years ago who was spreading the 6 box numbers and I mentioned that there was a better way to bet.  His comment “sometimes it works.”  Guess he likes to exchange several thousand dollars for a free ($300) night in a large suite and a $100 steak dinner.  GO FIGURE!!

 

To each his own. 

On a $25 Come bet with five times odds, what is the max odds on 6 and 8, 5 and 9 and 4 and 10?

It has been our experience that  on a $25 table with  5 times odds you can bet $125 on all 6 numbers BUT since the odds on the 5 and 9 (which pays 1 and 1/2 ) you need an even number for the odds and the casino will generally let you press the odds odds on these 2 numbers to $130.  If you are not sure what they will allow simply ask. 

Rose and Doc

Actually because you are betting in $25 increments you can go $150 in odds on the 5/9

Dom

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You can “press the house” much more on three-unit pass/come bets. A $15 or $30 come bet is an example of a three-unit bet. 

On a $30 come bet you can take $150/$200/$250 in odds on the 4-10/5-9/6-8 respectively. 

Each box number would have a payout of $330. 

On a $15 come bet you can take $75/$100/$125 in odds on the 4-10/5-9/6-8 respectively. 

Each box number would have a payout of $165. 

Skinny is so right! Sorry I forgot to say that. If you are a $25 player you are better off making it a $30 comebet or passline bet. Now you don’t have to take the full odds that Skinny stated, you can think it is  $25 come or even a $15 come bet. But here is the thing – If you make the $30 come bet and take less odds, as your roll increases you can always say, “Press my odds to $150”. It is an easy press and a hell of a lot of fun!

Dom

     What a great post. Thanks Doc and Rose. My last few trips to the casino have done nothing but underline the importance of playing the math of this game. Proper betting is a must. The five count is a great tool and has also saved me a ton of money. 

     I was playing with a couple on the last cruise I was on with my wife. They both were place bettors. Every time a point was established both would bet across. Each roll they would go up a unit and take a small profit. This lady knew her payouts down to the nickel. Her math skills were amazing to me. The only problem is that she did not apply that skill to a profitable betting plan. 9 times out of 10 they would never recover their initial bet. As Rose and Doc point out, for them to ever show a profit,the roll would have to reach into the twenties. How often does that occur?

     I always refer back to Skinny’s article on how to make money on the 10-20 roll hand. That is money in the bank. Great post. Thanks again

I think my game is ready to go from $15 to $30. I was planning on $25, but $30 seems the way to go. I have to think more on whether I want to go with full odds. If my game continues in the direction it has been going, then full odds will work. The biggest AC problem is table time. 24/7 is no longer the standard in some casinos. Opening a table at 11 AM as opposed to 6 or 6:30 AM is a big problem.

@dr-crapology So basically a $25.00 table is actually the equivalent to a $15.00 table as far as how much you can put down as odds ($125, $100, $75). The casino is shorting you money or you are shorting yourself the better win by not betting the extra $5.00. Thats why a $30.00 come bet is better. The odds that can be bet are $250, $200, $150.

High Arc 

@philham Totally agree.   Trying to find a table that is not loaded with the “MORON” factor is much harder lately.  The Buy in’s in the middle of a great ROLL.  Late FIELD bets, etc. etc.

Hi Doc First with 320 across you re talking about 50 min . and I would think by the rule of your buy in to be good enough to get by 10 players that is out of reach for me . I play at a table with 10.00 min. which I would like it to be less . But it has gone up as others have . Now I have posted about trying come bets before and how I did . I am still wanting to do it but it seems that I have not gotten to were I throw repeaters that much right off . So in practice I have been working on a plan to become one . 

It goes like this . I make a come bet on my first roll after I est a point then wait  till it hits . Since I may not be wormed up yet . If I feel good  at the end of rolling I will then place all the numbers across on next roll and after est a point make a come bet . I will say down with one unit odds and make another come bet .  If it goes to a number then take down all place bets and go with come bets till I have 3 working and if any go off and on add one unit odds to it . If I get to max. odds then add another come bet for 4 and hope it gets to max, odds  also .

So far it has worked in practice pretty well . The PSOs do hurt but are few in between so far . I would only do this on my rolls . Start off slow and if not feeling good about my rolling stop . 

I still play way to long when I do play .That is something that I am still working on . 

On that old post I rolled for some time and made one win on come bets and made like 5 to 8 points during the roll . Had 3 to 5 come bets up during the roll . They would all come down on the come out rolls . It was crazy . Even the Dp and dc players were happy besides the place betters . 

Is it not 5.4and 3 times odds on the bets ? 

What happens when you have two $15 Come bets up with full odds ( let us say the 9 and 4) and a $30 Come bet in the Come box and you make the 9. Does the $30 Come bet stay? Can you now make the $15 Come bet on the 9 a $30 Come bet with $200 in odds?

So here is how that would go Phil – The dealer would take down the $15 come bet with the odds and pay you for that bet because you rolled it, they would then take your $30- come bet that you have in the come area and put it on the 9 and ask you “how much odds”. You can then tell him $200. Or as he is paying you from the original $15 come bet you can tell then “Down with full odds on my $30 come”

Dom

Thanks. Spoke to Billy. He suggested that I start with $15 Come bets and after three or four hits go to $30 with full odds.

I think that your BR will let you know if you should go to 30 . I would try 25 instead since some tables have that as their min.  Also the dealers are use to that . I try to make it as easy for the dealers as I can . some just don’t like it when you keep changing your flat bet on a come bet . It is a little more work for them . It also is more work for YOU. 

Like Dom said if you don’t tell the dealer want odds you want you will have to pick up your winning and then put out the odds that you want . All of this will SLOW the game .

 

I think that your BR will let you know if you should go to 30 . I would try 25 instead since some tables have that as their min.  Also the dealers are use to that . I try to make it as easy for the dealers as I can . some just don’t like it when you keep changing your flat bet on a come bet . It is a little more work for them . It also is more work for YOU. 

Like Dom said if you don’t tell the dealer want odds you want you will have to pick up your winning and then put out the odds that you want . All of this will SLOW the game .

 

Doc I have seen GTC players play and when they get the dice they are not up on 3 bets . So if they get a PSO they are down only their odds bet unless their pass line bet is more then their come bet . I may be wrong which I am lots of times . It may be 2 or more rolls till they have 3 bets working I would think .

 First roll would be only a pass line or DP bet . The 2nd roll you put up a come bet to make 2 bets working then if a box number rolls you make another come bet for 3 working bets . But if no box number comes up you loose the come bet and still have only 2 bets . 

I had a roll one time were I rolled 17 numbers before EST. a point . So even after the 17 roll I would  have had only one number working if I was a come better .I did bet the 8 since at that time I was just a 6 and 8 better and the point was a 6  then PSO to loose 2 bets . Had I been a come better I would have been better off .

@philham Billy is right on. I kind of look at things at the table though. If I think the dealers are good and can make that transition from $15 to $30 without a problem and slow down the game I will do that, but most of the time IMHO they can’t so many times I will double dip on the number I am hitting, that is make a place bet so that I have 2 bets on that number. I find that it is easier for the dealers to continue with the $15 odds bet and when I want to put more money on a number it is easier for the dealers to press the place bets. I utilize the “Big Skinny” most of the time.

Another thought that I sometimes do is to start with the $30 come bet but treat it as a $15 come bet when it comes to how much odds I take. Then the press would just be to the dealers “Increase my odds to …”. I do this especially if it is a $25 table, instead of making a $25 come bet I will make a $30 come bet.

As long as I am bringing this up, if I am playing at a $50 table in lets say a 3/4/5 X’s game I will make the $50 come bet, but for the odds I think it is a $25 table and again I can say to a dealer “Press my odds to ….”. There are some tables in Vegas that stay at $50 min that I love to play.

Dom

 

@finisher The point here though Finisher on a 5X odds game like in AC, you have the ability to push the house with $15 and $30 come bets – that is to be able to take greater odds by pushing the house. This is kind of a moot point if you are playing a 3/4/5 X’s odds game.

All this has to do with your BR and especially what you are comfortable with. I know many players that have a lot of money, but sweat bullets if they have even a $60 6/8 on the table

dom

     I do agree Dom that most of the time it is better to double dip on the Big Skinny than to go to a different come bet. Too often it creates confusion and slows down the game. It is also on more thing that can lead me to distraction when I am on a good roll. I don’t want to have to explain anything to the dealer when I am rolling. It is such a fantastic game when it is moving at a pace and you are collecting on automatic pilot. 

     I am also playing a higher pass line bet now which allows me to play at tables that are less crowded. as you mentioned, I do not have to play full odds, but instead can press my odds as the hand progresses. Both are great points. Thanks

Were I play it is 3/4 and 5 Xs odds and the dealers will tell you right away if you put to much out there .