Hi Angelo

Yes! I totally understand that you are trying to stay within the 25% rule of your spread that I write about in my book, but in this case you do need to go over and take single odds on that comebet. The reason for this is the power on the come – comes from when you initially put it out because the 7 or 11 is a winner or then when you take odds, even single odds the edge on that bet goes down .85% – below a1% edge on that bet

Dom

@dominator thank you for the advice. I greatly appreciate it. 

Dom, is right on.  We always take at least 1 times odds on random rollers.  Another thought–as Gold Finger says–when you take the odds bet the money in odds is never at risk.  Why is this?The odds portion of a bet is an even bet and the very worst that can happen over time is you will break even.  This of course assumes you have the bank roll (like the casino) to get you through those bets you may lose in the short run.   

A second thought–assume you make a single come bet with odds and the random roller rolls your number.  You have a win in the rack and no money on the table.  You now make a second come bet and the roller rolls a 7 out.  You win your come bet and have no money on the table–a win all the way around.  

The secret, keep you exposure low on random rollers to keep those possible losses to a minimum. 

Doc 

Well I usually agree with Dom but I may be wrong but when that come bet goes to a number it has the same edge as a place bet . When you first make that come bet is were the edge goes your way .

I would hope that you win the first come bet then if your 2nd one goes to a number then add the odds since you are worried about your BR . then when you win that one your BR is bigger . If it ends that the same number is rolling you may want to even add more but if the number is different I would stick with 1 times odds . Build your rack up till you feel better about your BR. 

The odds of rolling a come that is on a number is the same as rolling a place bet number . If the odds were better for every come bet on a number was better then the casino would change the rules I think .

Good Rolling.

Finisher,  always appreciate your important input to this message board.  However I would respectively disagree that when the come bet goes to a number it is the same risk as a place bet–hope i understood that correctly.  

Let’s look at this in dollars and cents:

The $15 come bet has a negative expectation of 1.4% or 21 cents and the odds bet has a zero house edge–an even money bet so the total house is still only $.21.  Adding the odds brings the total house edge well below 1%.  

However with a $30 place bet (the same amount of money as the $15 come with $15 odds) has a 1.5% edge on the 6 and 8 for a house edge of $.45. Certainly more money.

If the come bet goes to a 5 or 9, the house edge is 4% so 4% on the whole $30 dollars for a house edge of $1.20.  It may not seem like a lot of money difference but over time the casinos earn many millions of dollars with these higher edge bets being bet time and time again by thousands of players 24 hours a day, day in and day out.    

Dom you agree??  If my thinking is not correct I would welcome comments from anyone.  

Thanks for allowing us to have the discussion.  Hope others will learn from this.  

Doc

Absolutely Doc, I agree. You put the math in dollars and that should be clear to everyone. Just to add something – if you put a place bet out on the 6 at the very same time as you put a comebet out, the place bet immediately has a 1.5 casino edge against you and that comebet has a positive edge because of the 7/11 that could be thrown.

From Finisher:

The odds of rolling a come that is on a number is the same as rolling a place bet number .

If the odds were better for every come bet on a number was better then the casino would change the rules I think .

This is also untrue. The odds of rolling a winner on the first roll after you put out a comebet is greater because of the 7/11 that could be rolled.

On the second sentence also is false, the casino edge is less with a come bet and the casino DOESN’T treat come players as they treat place bettors. This is evident because:

1. If you are a come player you get less casino comps that a place player

2. In every class that the casino gives for free to new players, the NEVER teach you how to use the come bet – why because it has a lower casino edge

3. As I say in class – has anyone ever heard a dealer ask the whole table if anyone wants a comebet? The answer is always no

Dom

So you are saying that if you have a come bet on a number the odds of it rolling is better then the one that is placed . I do not see why since every roll is the same in odds after that come bet goes to a number . What would make one bet better to roll . Money may be different . But say that I am double dipping as some would do and you are telling me that my odds are better on the come bet that I have compared to the place bet I have . I thought that each roll is separate and while you have a come bet on a number or a place bet on it the odds of rolling it is the same .

No matter what the money is I think that the odds of rolling that number should be the same .  The dice have no idea what money is were .  I would say . I think that you may not of read what I was getting at or saying .

I did not say anything about the edge but that the odds of rolling it is the same but I may be wrong .

To me it lowers your edge but the odds of rolling is the same .

Good Rolling .

We are not taking about the odds of rolling a number, we are talking about the casino edge on the bet that you make. Sorry, but you are confusing the odds of rolling a number to the casino edge of the bet. The casino edge is what you should always be thinking about when ever you play the game.

You want to make the LOWEST casino edge bet you can make so you can WIN the most money on your investment.

Dom

Thank you to everyone that has answered my question so far. My plan so far for my next casino trip is use the 5 count on every player, make just one come bet initially if a shooter gets through the 5 count, then if they establish a point on my come bet take single odds and just see what happens then. If I get 3 wins on my come bet with odds I’ll add a second come bet with single odds. 

I see that you guys are talking about only edge . Sorry . Now like the opposite of what Dr C gave you wait till the 5 count put up a come bet and it goes to a number then you put up 1 times odds   . Then the 7 comes and you are out more . But if you wait till you win that bet the next time you can add that odds and it will be from a bigger rack then when you started . Just think that you are now putting more money on a random roller that has gone way past an SRR that may be even better then yours .

He is now at a 7 count or better and if he rolls a 11 would you stay up on the come or just take the win ?

My last trip I made one come bet on random roller right off and it did not go well even though it was a 6 . They all got past the 5 count even got into the teens and twenties with their rolls with out that 6 rolling again . After 3 rollers did this I just stopped betting for awhile on them and went to bathroom .

I have had my come bet go on a 4 or 10 lots of times and was Glad that those come bets went on that 6 but it sure did not work out like I hoped . 

Were are all the new students on posts seems like few are on ?

Dom I am still trying come bets . The big problem that I see is that I have not got to a point were I throw repeaters in a row . Even over a long roll I may have 3 come bets working but not hitting wins on them since I may make the point and then the 7 comes and I have to start all over . Also those crap numbers do come into play . 

I think the edge is better on come bets . When I looked back on my rolls I see that I still have more wins on place bets then come bets . I hope that I will be able to change that soon .

Good Rolling.

Glad this came up before my trip.   I typically will not do more than 1 come bet on a random,  and usually only single odds.   Great discussion and explanations.       At a very full table of randoms I try to preserve my bankroll until the dice get back to me.. Not because I’m always the best  shooter but because I enjoy shooting the dice 🙂 .. 

Hope you get to shoot the dice as much as you want . I have faith that you will hit the ALL .

Good Rolling.

@finisher  Not sure I will match your last trip of  2  ATS in the same DAY!     I will sure try! 

have faith