Hey there! I’m new to dice control, but not to advantage play. I’ve been a card counter for many years. I imagine some of you in this group are familiar with that life style.
My husband and I have been practicing for months (we did not loose our jobs during this “pandemic”, so it’s slow going but have been starting to perfect a rhythm). As we are improving, I’d like to know what I can expect. I’m asking because I’m seeing that we’ll have sessions with long rolls, then sessions of crapping out frequently. I know it varies and this will change with practice and perfection, but from a card counting POV, I can say that experience is an overall grind until you find those positive situations with good variance. As our SRR is coming to fruition, I’d like to hear about the ratios of those banger sessions vs 7 on 7 on 7. If an SRR of anything >6.23, I imagine even the best have frustrating sessions…frequently.
Without diving into anyones personal SRR, could I assume most hover around that? The card counting equivalent in my mind are those who only do the illustrious 18 vs. those who know more indexes.
It’s my first day on the forums so I apologize if this question has been answered numerous times.
Please give me some perspective if you’re willing to share!
Thank you kindly!!
Replies:
Posted by: Skinny on November 17, 2020, 12:40 am
dicelady,
First, welcome to the site. I think you will find the journey to advantage play as a dice controller an exciting and enjoyable one. I am guessing you are dicelady and your husband is Steve Wynning. If I have that wrong please let me know.
I find your question intriguing, especially for a new member. There is no bad question on this site so no apology necessary.
While I have an answer for you, it does not directly answer the question you asked. But I think it is informative enough that you should get knowledge from it that will be helpful.
A few years ago I wrote an article that I think you will find useful. Following is a link to the article:
https://www.goldentouchcraps.com/article.php?p=skinny0021.shtml
Please let me know what you think.
Posted by: Steve_Wynning on November 17, 2020, 2:05 am
@skinny To clarify, DiceLady was given to me when getting the handle from taking the course back in Feb. I’m know as SteveWynning elsewhere, so I was attempting to change that
This is a very informative article, so thank you for sharing. The explanation of the 4x win vs. 1.75x loss makes sense (is there an exponent for more than one bet at a time? I know with having the advantage the dream is to have as much money out as possible, but with every throw you’re statistically inching closer to your SRR)
From bootcamp we were taught that the bare minimum SRR for a winning game is >6.23 (or is that break even?) As we’re practicing the betting strategy taught at boot camp, I’m seeing that we’re placing 3 bets plus odds until theres the potential to keep a collection (which still doesn’t cover what can be lost). So with the bare minimum we’ve got 3 bets plus odds on the felt, that leaves 3.23 rolls on average for the chance to make any collection, and doesn’t guarantee a profit with the variance of non-paying numbers in the mix. The amount of rolls needed to cover all points is more than the average SRR unless you never throw non-paying number.
I understand the point of these bets are to work for me, but in the event of a loss, anything thrown onto the felt will ultimately end up in the casino’s rack when the 7 is rolled. In our basement casino (clearly not at a point that we have any advantage) but in practicing I’m seeing strings of non 7s (30 roll club for the both of us!), then sessions of frequent 7s, even if the throw looks textbook.
I’m coming from a different game so in my attempt to understand expectation I may be getting too calculated. I’m trying to formulate the realistic big picture of what I can expect from a weekend of playing given I get good enough to have a decent SRR. Do most people find they grind until they obtain their good variance? Do most people play one table or two tables a day and call it? Do most people have such an astronomic SRR that the chance of loosing anything before covering all points isn’t even a thought?
I’m happy for any perspective one could give me.
Posted by: Dr Crapology on November 17, 2020, 12:44 pm
As usual, Skinny is it right.
Like you and your spouse, Rose and Doc got our start at advantage play at card counting. Yes we had some good trips / sessions and the same with dice control. This is true in both practice at home as well as in the casinos. It is part of the game. The secret is to have an adequate bankroll and only bet a small percentage of that bankroll. Accept the losing sessions and if necessary take a break and return when you are rested. During the rest period rethink your grip and your throw. Doc and Rose can readily tell what mistakes are being made.
Lastly but very important is come to a class weekend and take a refresher class or tune up and soon you will want to take an advantage class.
Look forward to seeing you in the casino soon.
Rose and Doc
Posted by: bminus1 on November 17, 2020, 3:54 pm
Welcome to the forum. Great questions! With your card counting experience, I’m sure that the math of the game will be of particular interest. Dan Pronovost did some detailed studies on hand/roll lengths using the Smartcraps program. The results of that study are presented in the ARTICLE: https://www.goldentouchcraps.com/articl … 0004.shtml
I think the article will be a worthwhile read for you.
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The more I practice, the luckier I get.
Posted by: Skinny on November 17, 2020, 9:16 pm
Here is another post that you may find useful. You could find this post in the Wisdom Pages of this forum. There are many other helpful posts in that section. You may want to go there and peruse some of them.
Posted by: Finisher on November 17, 2020, 9:42 pm
If you have not yet read all old posts that may help a little . When I first joined this site that is what I did . It did take some time to do but it gave me lots of good info .
Good Rolling Welcome on this journey .
