Craps

Grip confusion

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Ok, I’m perplexed here… It was my understanding that the ideal grip was just enough to pick them up and swing, but that the momentum of the swing should bring them from your fingertips into that beautiful arc that we are looking for. If that’s the case, why is it that I seem to get a better throw and result when I grip them much more firmly? The dice stay together better, have nice backspin and generally look better when I do. The obvious flaw I see with using that firmer grip might be that I’d tire out quicker. My Gripper just arrived so I plan on working with that over the next few weeks, but I just wanted to see what thoughts everyone here had.


Replies:

Posted by: brothelman on June 18, 2019, 4:03 am

Go to the Vegas seminar take the tuneup you’ll never fully understand the way people explain it in writing to see it feel it and get first-hand experience is the only way to get it done properly

Posted by: BeerKnurd on June 18, 2019, 11:52 am

I’d love to hit a refresher class, but unfortunately that’s just not happening this year. My brother’s getting married the weekend of the AC class and we’re going to Vegas for his bachelor’s party in July. Don’t think my boss would be too happy with me for asking for another long weekend off! My hope is for early next year.

Posted by: Cotton Lob on June 18, 2019, 2:03 pm

There is a whole series of free videos on what we were shown in class by Dom on Youtube. Watch them over and over until you turn blue. When you are not watching the videos throw dice into a pizza box until you turn blue or your wife ask you to cut the grass.

Watch the video below on Youtube:

https://youtu.be/kCtciQ3my7g

I hope this is some help to you. Let us know how you are making out.

Posted by: Stephen C on June 20, 2019, 2:57 am

All I can say is "What B-Man said". B know where he speak from………….

Posted by: High Arc on June 20, 2019, 1:09 pm

I watch those videos over and over again. It helps. When your wife says to you, " Your watching that video again?" You know that your on the right track to learning as much as you can about all aspects of the game. Burn them into your hard drive (Brain).

High Arc

Posted by: BeerKnurd on June 20, 2019, 9:41 pm

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you look at it) I don’t have a wife to say such things. I sat down and pulled out the book again the other day, I watched the videos again and I’ve been working with my Gripper. This afternoon something clicked and rolls started going much better. My Pro1 numbers jumped up 6 and in roll sets of 50 that’s a big leap. Right now I’m not so worried about passing the pro tests as I am seeing that the numbers are consistent or trending in a better direction. I’m taking a break to eat some dinner and work on an app I’m trying to build for practice sessions and I’ll go back to my practice rig this evening to try to gel what I locked into this afternoon.

Posted by: Preacher on June 21, 2019, 12:03 pm

I’m glad to hear you are on track. You went back to basics – that’s always a good thing and should be a regular part of your regimen.

Earlier, you mentioned your dice grouping looked better in the air when you used a firmer grip. Given that it’s best to grip the dice as far to the top as you can, a firmer grip will require one of two things: 1) a faster swing of your arm, resulting in greater momentum in the dice, or 2) a last flick of your wrist to fling the dice out of your grip (a third would be opening your hand, at which point there is no dice control). I have seen both done well, but keep in mind, both will result in much more backspin. As a multiplying effect, greater backspin will require landing the dice closer to the back wall. In other words, even a small change in grip will require even more changes to compensate.

As I was taught in class, on a hard table, we strive to have 4 to 6 rotations of the dice, landing 6 inches from the back wall. On a soft table (usually means there’s an additional layer of cloth between the layout and the wood), should you find yourself on such a table, too much backspin will result in your dice dying at the point of first contact with the table after a bounce straight up – short roll! On a soft table, I still use a backspin of 6 rotations and then target 1 inch from the wall with only a 30 degree arc. Talk about dead stop, but I find the shot so entertaining, I like it. I hit the wall, so technically it’s a good shot. But I can almost see the rusty gears in Mr. Boxman’s brain turning to find how best to express displeasure. Again, I do it for entertainment – and it’s a topic I hope to discuss at the next Advanced Class I can attend, if I can go at least 3 months without surgery (I’m currently recovering from carpal tunnel surgery).

Keep up the good practice, and I hope to see you at your next class.

Posted by: Dominator on June 27, 2019, 1:58 pm

it could be that what you think is the light grip is actually too light. also you could possibly gripping to high on the dice.

Try these.

Dom

Posted by: Finisher on June 27, 2019, 10:08 pm

BeerKnurd It has been a week now and has anything gotten better with the gripper use ? Have you glued two dice together to see how your throw looks in air ? This is a journey that you are on so it does take time . Hope that the gripper will help you . I have an old one that I go back to every once in awhile .

Posted by: Cotton Lob on June 28, 2019, 2:37 pm

I recently raised my thumb 1/16 inch with a result in improved back spin. Sometimes the fingers creep unknowingly.

Posted by: BeerKnurd on July 2, 2019, 2:07 pm

First, thank you to everyone who has given feedback. Finisher you are absolutely right, this is a journey and sometimes we end up on the wrong path by mistake. I have been making little tweaks one at a time and seeing what impacts they had and while I have not yet actually glued two dice together (though I should), I did begin thinking of them in my pre-throw visualization as a single rectangular die and that helped. Perhaps by thinking of them as a single unit my hand started throwing them more that way, I’m not sure. The second thing that I realized just yesterday is something that Cotton Lob mentioned. In trying to get my thumb and middle finger centered on the dice I was accidentally pushing my index finger out and it was catching that corner. When I started to shift everything slightly to the other side things started throwing straighter without (what felt like) a death grip on the dice. In my frustration I was also picking up the tempo of my swing which caused my elbow to break on the back swing and basically whip on the front swing, adding more energy to the dice, so I’ve slowed that down a bit more again. For me, much like with my golf swing, short back swings and that slightly slower tempo give me greater control over where I land the dice. So many little variables to get under control! To bastardize Kennedy’s statement about going to the moon, part of what I love about this game is not that it’s easy, but that it is a challenge. Every time I overcome something like this it’s so satisfying!

I’m off to Vegas in two weeks for my brother’s bachelor’s party so hopefully I’ll have some much better news for you after that! At least the parts I’ll be allowed to share… 😆