For those of you who read my previous post you all know that I had a rough time after my last visit to Vegas. Since my post I spoke with Dom and I am taking a refresher in Atlantic City. Also I am in the process of setting up a permanent practice station at home. Along with the practice station I am taking Preachers advice and setting up a layout so that I not only can practice my throws but also practice my betting strategy.
Now, I would like to give you all a report of a few sessions I had while on a two week business trip. Along the way I stopped at three casinos and played at each one. I have a rough idea of how I did at each casino but I did not take notes after each session (something I need to get in the habit of doing).
I emailed Dom while on the trip and let him know that I was feeling better and that I was trying a new betting strategy. I told him that I would elaborate on how I was betting and that I was prepared to be ripped by everyone including him when I post everything š
First of all I would like to say that I do understand the advantages of come betting especially on random rollers and while using the 5 count. However, it seems like it hardly ever works out for me. I complete the 5 count and place a minimum come bet every once in a while the shooter will 7 out and I will win but more than often the will roll a number and my bet gets moved. I place odds on the come bet and shortly after the shooter rolls a 7 and I end up losing my money. So, I tried a different strategy and I have been analyzing this strategy, I am not positive that this is the best strategy to use on random rollers with the 5 count but I do not know why it would not be a better strategy for someone who has a good SRR and can hit the numbers.
So this is what I have been doing. I use the 5 count and instead of making a come bet on the 6th roll I wait to bet on the shooters 7th or 8th roll, in deciding when to place the bet I take into account how many times he rolled a 7 on his come out roll and then I use the iron cross (I know, I know…) LOL. I mainly use this on tables with 5 dollar minimums.
Here is a report on the last three casinos and the results I had using the above method.
First stop I made was in West Virginia. I played one session at this casino and had the dice twice. The tables were $5.00 minimum and 12 foot long the surface was a little different. I will try to explain, one thing I noticed, which may be something that is normal on some tables, was the middle of the table seemed like it had no support. When the stickman would work with the bets in the center if he pressed down onto the surface it would sink in maybe a half a quarter to a half an inch and then go back to its normal resting position. The two times I had the dice I did not do well 7 out pretty quickly. I won around $175 just using the 5 count and and betting on other players using the iron cross.
Second casino I stopped at was in Michigan City, Indiana. The tables here were 14 foot and I really liked the surface. It was very similar to the practice rigs that Dom has at his seminars. The night I arrived I played one session and held the dice twice. Did not do well either time I was throwing and overall did not do well that session. Still used the same method that I was using at the first casino. I think I ended up down about $100. I played another session the next morning. This time I was throwing very well, I had the dice twice.There were several players at the table betting the all tall and small so I can somewhat tell you how I rolled. The first time I held the dice I established a point and rolled all the numbers except for the twelve (some numbers I rolled numerous times) and then I hit my point. Next come out roll I think I may have rolled a couple of sevens which reset the all tall and small bets. I then established a point and rolled very similar to my previous roll, never hitting the 12 and then 7 out. While I had the dice I would bet the minimum on the pass line (again a 5 dollar minimum table) I would back that bet with $20 odds and if my point was 5, 6, or 8 I would place the other two numbers and the bet the field. Unlike betting on a random roller I would double my bets, 10 on 5, 12 on 6 and 8 and 10 on the field. Second time the dice came around to me it was very much a repeat of the first time I had the dice. I felt on top of my game. I would also bet on random rollers using the 5 count and the iron cross but I won the most this session betting on myself. I left after I 7 out the second time I held the dice. I was up $275 when I left.
Third Casino I stopped at was in Elizabeth, Indiana. Tables where 12 foot and I played two sessions here. I held the dice twice and did not roll well. To me the tables felt a little spongy for a lack of a better word. I worked with the 5 count and the iron cross and did not do well here either. I think I was down maybe $100 after I called it a night.
A few other factors I noticed about my throwing is I generally do much better playing in the morning. Also I noticed that when I wear flip-flops I do not roll well (not sure if this is in my head or really a factor).
Although I did not roll that good most of the time and I only won a small amount of money I felt good about my playing. Along with the reply’s I got on my previous post this experience has gotten me excited about practicing and moving forward with the Golden Touch method.
Okay Dom and others I am ready for the beating! I know, I know, the iron cross… I am waiting on it! LOL
Replies:
Posted by: Dominator on May 31, 2018, 12:17 pm
First I want to remind everyone that we DO NOT mention casino names on this forum. I edited this post and removed the names/
Positives – Your second night was just great. This type of night where you are shooting well should give you the confidence that you can do it and that you have it. I know that you do have it!
All right here goes. The other day I decided I would only bet on shooters that wore T-Shirts. I did this for 3 days and man did I make a ton of money! On the 4th day I lost my T-Shirt. š
You see no system can pass the test of time or house edge. It is not unusual to win for awhile with any system, (Iron Cross), but if you keep playing that system the odds will catch up to you and you will lose. So before I give you the reasons you need to ask yourself if you are playing for fun and you don’t care if you lose, or are you playing because you love this game and love making money.
In our GTC articles section we have articles on the Iron Cross. Here is a link to just one: http://www.goldentouchcraps.com/article … k0011.html
If the payout on the 2 or 12 in the field is 2X’s the house edge on the Iron Cross is 3.87%! The house edge with a comebet and just 1X odds is .87%, the is 3% less!
No one ever said that the 5-count is a winning betting system because there isn’t a betting system that will make you money. Every system out there carries a house edge that is negative for the player. The 5-count just eliminates shooters for us so our money isn’t at risk all the time and by using a comebet after the 5-count we are make the lowest house edge bet you can make. There are days when it works and there are days like you had when it doesn’t, but the come bet is .87% and the Iron Cross is 3.87%.
The only way to over come the house edge is for you to have an edge that is greater than the house edge on the bets that you make.
So you need to ask yourself a very simple question, do I want to become the casinos worst nightmare and make bets that have the lowest house edge or do I want to play this game like every other loser and make bets that have a high house edge. I think the answer is obvious. I want to make a bet that carries less than a 1% edge and DO NOT want to make a bet that carries almost a 4% edge
Dom
Posted by: Drummer on May 31, 2018, 12:37 pm
Sorry about the names. I do remember reading that now. Thank you for the advice on my betting strategy. The one thing I did not do is the math! I had no idea (if I did it slipped my mind) that playing the iron cross carried that kind of a house edge. I just looked at the fact that every roll I got money with the exception of the seven of coarse.
I am starting a practice routine with betting so I can know where I stand in the long run.
Thank you again for the advice!!!
Posted by: HardNine on May 31, 2018, 3:16 pm
Almost 100% of my practice includes betting. From time to time, I use 2 rails; one for come, one for places or one each for including or excluding a certain element of betting. I run these comparisons for a minimum of one month to get some statistically significant results. During class, Iāve seen Dom force a student to put 10 on the side to bet their cherished Hardway bets to see how fast it goes. You could run your own comparison and see for yourself what Dom is referring to… over time itāll show.
All the best. If you ever make it back up to Michigan City or Hammond, PM me to meet up!
Don
Posted by: Preacher on May 31, 2018, 3:18 pm
For your entertainment, let me share my Iron Cross system that I used prior to GTC. I used the Iron Cross with a two layer hedge, on random rollers. For the Come Out, I would put $15 on 11, Lay $150 on 4 and Lay $150 on 10, and put $75 on Donāt Come. Thatās a Come Out combined bet of $390, with $150 at most at risk. After the Come Out, it gets complicated. Iāll only cover a couple of scenarios. After the Come Out, I always took down the 2 Lay bets. If the point was 5, I Placed $30 on 6, Placed $30 on 8 and put $15 on the Field. I would press after 3 collections. Once the point was made, or a 7-Out, I would start all over. A 2nd scenario, if the point was 4 or 10, I would put Odds on the DP bet to recover the lost Lay bet, and make the same Iron Cross. In the 2nd scenario, if the point 4 or 10 was made, I would make the same Come Out bets, followed with keeping a lay on whichever point was made previously (4 or 10), since statistically, the odds were very high a random roller would not hit the previous point (4 or 10) within 8 rolls.
As you can imagine, it was an exhausting system, but it entertained the dealers and confused the other players. In the end, after all that, I often only made an average of $75 a session.
I had already read āCutting Edge Crapsā, watched Domās YouTube videos, and purchased and watched the GTC instructional videos, so I did not use the Iron Cross on myself.
But, after I took the GTC Primer, I quickly adopted the GTC betting method. And, it is so much easier, which is obvious, I have so much LESS ever at risk in any one hand, and I walk away with so much more.
BTW, one thing Iāll add about the 5 count on random rollers. My preference, and everyone elseās Iām sure, would be to never bet on a random roller. However, the casino takes a dim view of such a player. To keep my spot at the table, I have to make bets. So, the purpose of the 5 count is to minimize my losses on the random roller, not really to make me money.
Posted by: Drummer on May 31, 2018, 4:09 pm
"HardNine" wrote: Drummer, great to hear youāre getting things turned around. The journey certainly has some bumps.
Almost 100% of my practice includes betting. From time to time, I use 2 rails; one for come, one for places or one each for including or excluding a certain element of betting. I run these comparisons for a minimum of one month to get some statistically significant results. During class, Iāve seen Dom force a student to put 10 on the side to bet their cherished Hardway bets to see how fast it goes. You could run your own comparison and see for yourself what Dom is referring to… over time itāll show.
All the best. If you ever make it back up to Michigan City or Hammond, PM me to meet up!
Don
Will do, I really liked Michigan City. These stops really were not planned. I was driving and looking for places along my route. I will keep you in mind though as I may be back up there sooner than later.
Posted by: Drummer on May 31, 2018, 4:16 pm
"Preacher" wrote: Drummer, excellent post, and I respect your honesty. And, you can see what a wonderful resource Dom is, and our instructors are.
For your entertainment, let me share my Iron Cross system that I used prior to GTC. I used the Iron Cross with a two layer hedge, on random rollers. For the Come Out, I would put $15 on 11, Lay $150 on 4 and Lay $150 on 10, and put $75 on Donāt Come. Thatās a Come Out combined bet of $390, with $150 at most at risk. After the Come Out, it gets complicated. Iāll only cover a couple of scenarios. After the Come Out, I always took down the 2 Lay bets. If the point was 5, I Placed $30 on 6, Placed $30 on 8 and put $15 on the Field. I would press after 3 collections. Once the point was made, or a 7-Out, I would start all over. A 2nd scenario, if the point was 4 or 10, I would put Odds on the DP bet to recover the lost Lay bet, and make the same Iron Cross. In the 2nd scenario, if the point 4 or 10 was made, I would make the same Come Out bets, followed with keeping a lay on whichever point was made previously (4 or 10), since statistically, the odds were very high a random roller would not hit the previous point (4 or 10) within 8 rolls.
As you can imagine, it was an exhausting system, but it entertained the dealers and confused the other players. In the end, after all that, I often only made an average of $75 a session.
I had already read āCutting Edge Crapsā, watched Domās YouTube videos, and purchased and watched the GTC instructional videos, so I did not use the Iron Cross on myself.
But, after I took the GTC Primer, I quickly adopted the GTC betting method. And, it is so much easier, which is obvious, I have so much LESS ever at risk in any one hand, and I walk away with so much more.
BTW, one thing Iāll add about the 5 count on random rollers. My preference, and everyone elseās Iām sure, would be to never bet on a random roller. However, the casino takes a dim view of such a player. To keep my spot at the table, I have to make bets. So, the purpose of the 5 count is to minimize my losses on the random roller, not really to make me money.
Preacher, Thank you for the reply. I will be honest with you it was kinda exhausting just trying to comprehend your system š
I also want to add that what you said about the 5 count and betting on random rollers makes a lot of sense and not really the way I looked at it before.
Again, thanks for the great advice!
Posted by: Finisher on May 31, 2018, 8:10 pm
Good Rolling.
