First, both dice must hit the back wall every shot. If not, the casino has every right to complain.

A slightly lower trajectory should carry them to the wall consistently.

NFF

Thank you NFF. Yes I completely understand that both dice must hit the back wall and that is what is taught and preached at the seminars. I was just curious why it was happening. Like I mentioned I did not complain or argue I just said yes ma’am and threw the dice a little lower or used a little more backswing. My curiosity was also about the felt and back spin. Is it possible to put to much back spin to cause the dice to just die once it hits the felt? Kind of like in shooting pool or hitting a golf ball onto the green.

First of all, congratulations on how you handled the the casino complaint that both dice were not hitting the back wall. You were correct to say your were sorry and would get them to the back wall. Never give an argument as you can’t win.

NFF is correct that a lower trajectory should help. Also a slightly longer back swing (maybe an inch longer) should help get the dice to the back wall.

A correction we have gotten from the pit boss is that I need to "hit the back wall harder and give the dice more action). He is looking for the dice to be more random. We simply said we were sorry and colored up so we could come back to the same casino at a later time when a different crew would be working the table.

Hope that will help. Thanks for posting this as others will benefit from your question.

Rose and Doc

"Cajunthrower" wrote: My curiosity was also about the felt and back spin. Is it possible to put to much back spin to cause the dice to just die once it hits the felt? Kind of like in shooting pool or hitting a golf ball onto the green.

A short answer to your question is "Yes". A softer layout might need less rotation and/or lower trajectory.

NFF

Thank you NFF, Rose and Doc. Looking forward to my refresher in Vegas!!! See everyone in August or sooner if I can pull it off.

I’m glad NFF mentioned the softer layout. I was with two friends this last week, one of whom was a fellow GTC student. We took a tour of casinos on the Gulf Coast. Strangely, while all were under different ownership, all had a softer layout. Yes, I lowered my arch and had to add an inch to my backswing, but I never got over 20 rolls in any single hand.

I have pressed down on the table, even picked up the 5 dice and dropped them, to see what was under the layout over the wood. It’s definitely not just microfiber, but also not a cell filled foam layer. I think it’s microfiber over a waterproof thin layer, just like what’s used under wood flooring.

IMO, those types of layouts, which appear to be the most common in the Gulf area, have zero consistency on dice action, even when I hit the same spot. With the same throw and landing, sometimes one or both dice will just die short, one might take a dogleg towards the dealer, or roll beautifully to the back wall and die. On the bright side, neither die ever lands, hits the wall and runs back towards me.

I really, really don’t like the inconsistency. I have enough work getting my stance, grip, and throw consistent. So, for the foreseeable future, I’m done with soft or, worse, bouncy. Just like I have heard NFF say countless times, if the conditions aren’t right – leave.

Preach it, brother! Agreed. It’s so hard to leave, but that’s a huge part of the discipline we must have.

After my roll of making two points on less than 10 rolls I did color up and walk away from the table with a small loss to my 401G. This casino does have $5 minimum which works well with my 401G but I will probably go the bigger casino were I like the table better and get better rolls. The minimums there are $10 and that is where I have been able to build up my 401G.

Are you guys including Biloxi when your refereeing to the Gulf Coast?

Catch you later!