I generally put out a pass line and two come bets with full odds until I get two hits then start spreading the board with every hit. This is on my rolls only. The bankroll and being comfortable with exposure does have a lot to do with it.

Cmcierra

The occasions on which I found myself on all the box numbers with just 3 collections, followed by a 7-out, gave me cause to reevaluate my working bets. What I now do is:
– Start with a PassLine bet, immediately followed by 2 Come bets, for a total of 3 working bets with 5x odds – no more until I get 3 collections. This takes discipline when my 3 working bets are on the 4, 10, and 5 (or 9), because I’m thinking, “It’s going to take a long time to make 3 collections on those numbers.” But that’s a lie (oh, how we deceive ourselves, to the casino’s glee). After just 1 collection, my replacement Come bet or PassLine bet will probably be a different number, like 6 or 8. So, I won’t really be stuck with those numbers for long.
– After 3 collections, I then keep a continuous Come bet going.
– After 5 collections, I double my odds (on a 10x or higher table), or double my flat bet on a 5x or lower table.

As long as I am in SL1 or SL2, and can wait long enough to get the dice (once an hour wears me out), I always make money on that betting strategy.

Funny thing, WireNut, at the casino after the Atlantic City class, I saw so many GTC students make Place bets across and inside with zero Come bets. Now, Dom and Instructors don’t count, because they are playing to their advantage over the casino. But students and myself? Foolhardy. Funny though, I saw BonyJoe throw down $200 on hard 8 when I had the dice. But I was having a great roll, and he had already made a lot. He was just entertaining me, and, yes, I hit the hard 8, ha.

I am glad that my argument about come betting hit home, but I guess I need to stress the part about how much exposure more because neither of you brought up what I said 🙂

This is what GTC recommends and is the way I play as well as many of GTC instructors. Some GTC instructors are like many of you out there and still want to be a place bet player. They all know how I feel about place bets and my feelings are all math related, so I am not saying anything out of school. I play the game with the math on my side. Granted they can all over come the house edge of place bets, but IMHO why does anyone even want to give 1% or more edge to the casino? They screw us in so many ways —– why give them more money?

On yourself when you are throwing:
Pass line bet with odds and two comebets for a total of three "working bets". Before you go to a fourth working bet you should be at least at 5X odds on each bet or max if you are playing at a 3/4/5 X’s odds game. I don’t say max odds because if you are playing at a 10X odds game or greater – yes the casino edge is lower with those odds but the difference between 5X odds and 10X odds is not that great.

If you want to be conservative, (all this is after max odds on the three working bets) take three collections and if you want to be aggressive take 2 collections before you go to a fourth working bet. And if you want to be VERY aggressive look up "The Big Skinny" on this site. This was developed by Skinny and I use it sometimes.

Now one more thing – if your two comebets go out to what I call outliers numbers and you start to throw a number that you don’t have a comebet on, throw out another comebet.

On random rollers after the 5-count:
Calculate your spread when you are shooting, spread being how much money do you have on the table when you get the dice, and DO NOT bet MORE than 25% of your spread initially on a random roller. Then wait 2 or 3 collections, assuming that you are at max odds – 5X or 3/4/5 X- before you make a second comebet on the random roller. You must have this discipline! You have to have the thoughts that you are not there to win on a random roller because you will lose in the long run!

I sincerely hope that everyone reads this and plays this way. Remember the line that I said in class:

The way you make more money at craps or any other casino game is to learn to lose LESS money!

Betting is even more important than learning the throw. Without proper betting, even if you are the best in the world you will not win as much as you should!

Dom

Thanks for clearing that up, Dom. I call it max odds because all the houses around me in PA and NJ are 3/4/5X that I am aware of. It’s poor terminology, by me, to call it max odds, but that is what I know as full odds.

I thought it was 3 working bets but could not recall.