Phil

I have know people that have a ton of money but having $30 on the table on a given number would make them sweat bullets. I always advise people to do what you did, practice with the larger amounts. Nice job!

Criticism on the post:

You really need to take a refresher class. We have coming at the end of October. Give me a call about it if interested. – Now why am I saying that:

Your betting has to change especially in AC if you are going to bet larger. The buy of the 4/10 in AC is just crazy when you consider the edge. Placing the 5/9 is a BIG NO NO!

Please come or change your betting to come betting

Dom

Philham,

I am much newer to Craps than yourself. After I took the Primer class in Shreveport March 2017, I went to a casino at most once a month and practiced a lot with my GTC Throwing and Receiving stations. I retired from oil & gas last May, took the Refresher class in Vegas July 2017, so I now go 2 to 3 times a month. But that does not compare to your decade of craps.

Even so, since you buy-in for $2k and usually make place bets at $10 and $12 dollars, I can safely deduce one fact: you are very conservative with your money, and, most likely, all of your possessions. Your probably a long term investment kind of guy. Having worked for the largest of oil & gas companies, I can appreciate the value of long term investments.

Craps, of course, is a very dynamic playing field, even when you have the dice. You have stepped out of your comfort zone, and that’s great! It’s an opportunity for personal growth, which is even more important at our age – to be mentally and emotionally limber. Add coffee to that and there’ll be no mental decline for us, right?

Dom mentioned Come bets, and I will share my assessment and personal, recent, experiences on how Come bets are so much better for risk management than Place bets.

With Place bets, your money is really out there, with no protection. Even if we have the dice, it should take a while to 7-out, but we have no idea what points will land. While 6& 8 are mathematically the most likely, Place bets on the 6 & 8 make hits on 5 & 9 totally wasted, right? If we land on a 6 and the 8, with 2 collections, we can now afford to Place on 5 & 9 – that’s the strategy of Place betting. Risk management for Place betting, if used, relies only on waiting for collections, and using "casino" money to move across the points. Sometimes it works, particularly if we’re having a nice roll.

The downfall of Place bets is that they are made without any respect for what the dice are doing for us under the current conditions, and the conditions are many: our grip, stance, shoulders, swing, release, table surface, chips in our normal landing zone, to name some. Our Place bets are a stab in the dark, hoping we land a 6 or 8. Then, after some collections, hoping we might also land a 5 or 9.

With the Pass Line bet and Come bets, in addition to having an advantage over the house on the 1st roll of each bet, we have now established that a specific number has landed. In short, the dice talk to us. To carry this further, for an uncontrolled, or random, throw, any point that lands is just a rumor. For a controlled throw, a point that lands reflects our current conditions, and is very likely to land again. It certainly does for me.

This is where Come bets jump way ahead of Place bets. Placing odds on the Passline bet and the Come bet is not a stab in the dark. With the Passline and Come bets, your throw has shown what will land. Our throws become predictors for the next throw. Of course, if my dice are landing all over the points, that tells me something, too – I need more practice – just as important to know.

On top of that, we still need to respect the 7. In my opinion, this means I start with only a Pass Line bet and one Come bet until one or 2 collections. I might still make Come bets, but not put up odds on new Come bets until I get a collection or 2. This is where you make a strategy that fits your comfort level.

Dom goes through the strategy and math in the new classes, so, as he said, it would be good if you attended.

Dom-After an in depth consultation with my coach, I am going to try an experiment at a $10 table and only place the 6 & 8 and come bet. It will admittedly be difficult to break a decade’s long style of play. My coach said in response to my claim that I hit 5’s and 9’s frequently, ( which is why I like to place them) I may suffer from selective memory. Will my losses be less and my winnings greater? Only the Shadow knows for sure. Can I routinely overcome the 4% HA by place betting. I thought I was that good. Maybe I think I am better then I really am. Time will tell.

Love it Phil!

You know and most people know that I don’t believe in "Signature numbers" – your "coach" telling you that you throw a lot of 5/9’s. Preacher listened well in class when I said that on any given day and any given round with the dice your "signature number" can and will be different. I am sure you have had rounds with the dice where you threw a few 4’s or 10’s.

I would love to hear the outcome of your experiment. I also hope you come by to see all of us in AC at the open house on Friday.

Two last things –

– I hope you are using the 5-count on random rollers
– I would love for you to do a few sessions where you don’t even place the 6/8 but go 100% comebets

Dom

Don-Over time I have moved the 5 count up to 7. I use it religiously. Not sure if I can make Oct in AC. I will call you. As far as signature numbers, I agree fully that on any given day I will throw lots of a given number. This last trip, I threw tons of 5’s . Sometimes lots of 10’s, etc. I could never account for why, but it did not hurt me, except for the fact I was not on that number. I can see how.come betting would help. On the other hand, I would buy the 4 or 10 on those days when I am seeing repeating numbers. Usually, they repeat for my particular trip, not just one session.

Great talking to you yesterday Phil
Keep me posted on the cruise

Dom

Dom-Is there any empirical data showing different results with the preferred GTC grip and the grip used by former artist instructor and me?

Philham,
If your looking for add’l GTC’s when you frequent AC. I’m there quite often as well as several others. I’m happy to see your good results but would really like to show you what your $$$ return would be with pass/come betting with odds! You will be amazed. When you see what you could be winning and not risking as much, Dom and his team are unbelievable with what they teach. I too still go rogue but ALWAYS stick with basics, with the number of throws you posted your winnings though good aren’t even close to what you could have in your 401.
Joe

"Philham" wrote: Dom-Is there any empirical data showing different results with the preferred GTC grip and the grip used by former artist instructor and me?

Hi Phil

My doctor tells me that I need to always keep my blue aura to stay healthy, so no comment 😀

Dom

"Philham" wrote: Dom-After an in depth consultation with my coach, I am going to try an experiment at a $10 table and only place the 6 & 8 and come bet. It will admittedly be difficult to break a decade’s long style of play. My coach said in response to my claim that I hit 5’s and 9’s frequently, ( which is why I like to place them) I may suffer from selective memory. Will my losses be less and my winnings greater? Only the Shadow knows for sure. Can I routinely overcome the 4% HA by place betting. I thought I was that good. Maybe I think I am better then I really am. Time will tell.

I think that’s a great idea. /;-))

Just a side note.

After talking to Phil, after his talk with his coach – I found out who it is and he is the best! 😆

Dom

Is there a 5-count for the darkside betting?

I don’t have any facts. If a thrower, on avg, 7’s out once every 4-6 rolls, then it would be wise to start the DC bets about roll 3 or 4.

🙂

The edge on a pass line bet is 1.4, the edge on a don’t pass is 1.41 ….really no difference.

My next comments are for everyone …. this question has brought it up though. People you can not beat the game of craps with any method of betting – 5-count – regression betting – ANY METHOD. These type of question are good to have on the board because it gives me the ability to stress this fact. You all will not be the advantage player you want to be until you all get it out of your mind that you can’t go to the casinos looking to win on anyone else except yourself.

Betting on the don’t IMHO is just a waste of time and puts your money at risk immediately. The house edge is the same except you are putting your money out at the beginning. The 5-count and then playing a comebet does two things for you – it will eliminate 57% of all shooters at the table so you are only risking your money 43% of the time, and it gives you a betting opportunity so the casino sees you are playing.

You can’t win betting on others and continuing to look for away to win on others is a waste of time

Please all excuse my bluntness. We in GTC want you all to be winners and you all won’t be winners unless you
1. learn the throw
2. calculate your edge when you are throwing
3. bet into your edge

It is really that simple.

Dom