Craps

Avoiding Heat when Betting Large

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A friend of mine, who will be a new student at the Oct 27, 2017, class in Atlantic City, has encountered a rash of being banned at some of the Louisiana casinos. It does not appear to be casino specific, so there is no need to specify any particular casino.

He likes to buy-in at $10k to $50k. A good hand for him when he has the dice is 15 throws, but betting at the table maximum, he can be up $40k in one hand. When I’m at the table, he bets maximum and clears $40k or more easily. Of course, he does Place Bets (new to GTC, as I said – I know Dom will fix that problem with gusto) on 6 & 8, then moves to all inside, then across. So he’s not entirely reckless.

Of course, he often loses $10k at a time, too. When I’m at the table and he bets on my throws, he gets absolutely no heat. The week after I was there, he was banned at BlackJack where I like to go, but not banned for craps -yet. At another local casino, he was banned in the middle of a session, when he was down $10k. At yet another local, but large, casino, he was told he had to stop until he spoke with the casino manager, who was not there at the time (the floor manager said he had to watch their bottom line).

I gave him some advice, and told him he should speak to Dom and the instructors at the Atlantic City class, since I had no personal experience with getting heat. My advice was:
1) Bet Small on yourself, no more than $300 a point.
2) Work on your throw (he is often short).
3) If you want, Bet as big as the table allows on another shooter. I’ve never seen a casino make an issue about bets made on someone other than yourself, unless perhaps, they think your a team.
I didn’t see any point advising him on betting, since he’ll get that at the GTC class.

My question to all is what is the best way to be able to buy-in at $10k or higher without the casino taking issue – for craps? I know most casinos welcome "VIP"s, so it isn’t like a casino will turn away a large bankroll. When I am ready to move to that level, should I hire a casino host to introduce me to the casino management, so they are prepared when I make large wagers? Other than never betting large, what are the options?


Replies:

Posted by: Finisher on September 13, 2017, 4:57 pm

Casino hosts are hired by casino .If you bet big you get one .
Good Rolling. 😀 😀 😀

Posted by: MrPiP on September 13, 2017, 9:09 pm

Be careful with the face recognition software.

Posted by: Dominator on September 14, 2017, 11:08 am

There is so much here Preacher. Please show this to your friend who I will meet in AC and have spoken to him on the phone.

1. Understand the casino that you are playing at. Buying in for 10K at the fountain casino in Vegas is not the same as buying in for 10K Eiffel Tower casino. My gut tells me that the casinos in LA don’t typically see a 10K to 50K buy in. You will never see any of the instructors buy in for 10K anywhere. That is not to say that we don’t have 10K in our pocket or have put over 10K in action on any given session, but the buy in initially will not be 10K. The bigger the buy in the more eyes will be on you.

The reason their are more eyes is not because the casino thinks that your an advantage player, (remember that I said we never buy in for that), but because they want that customer’s business. Meaning they are probably going to call a host over to talk to him, and try to keep him in their casino to lose all his money.

Buy in for 2K to 3K and go into your pocket if you need more

2. I have taught many very high rollers who before my instruction have bought in for what your friend has bought in for. They all had the same problem as your friend. They received heat. So the question is why? From them telling me their stories, it is because they gave heat right back to the casino in the form of an argument. "Oh I missed the back wall once and they were all over me!" – Pal, the rules of the game is that you have to hit the back wall EVERY TIME! or "I asked the stickman to move a little, very nicely and they got pissed." – Pal, does a regular gambler ever ask the stickman to move?

I think you get the picture. All of these guys think that because they bought in for a big amount they can do anything. NOT! The game belongs to the casino and they can take the game away for anyone

So do the right thing every time – Hit the back wall with both dice – don’t argue – act like a George

3. Follow the GTC’s 20 commandments!

Dom

Posted by: Preacher on September 14, 2017, 4:00 pm

MrPip, funny you should mention facial recognition software. When my friend returned to one of the smaller LA casinos (I had returned home), only his 2nd time there, he bought in for his usual large amount. The box man opened a notebook and pulled out a piece of paper that clearly had my friend’s picture on it, and said, "Give him back his money." Ha, no need for fancy facial recognition soaftware, there. Low tech all the way. My friend said to me later, "What am I – a criminal now?" I couldn’t help but laugh.

As Dom said, I figured most local casinos just don’t see that kind of money (action), so it makes lower management nervous. I don’t think I’ll bother with more than $2,000, unless I know the owner, or at least one of the senior executives. Since I consider myself still in training, I only pull out $500 at a time, anyway.

My friend is half my age and is being impetuous. He needs a good wife to keep him grounded. When we were in Vegas in July, the 2nd night we were at the tables, my son, LTAmerica, texted his wife that he just made $2,000. Like a good wife, she texted back, "RUN!" I love that girl.

I am confidant Dom will beat some wisdom into my friend’s Texas noggin next month in class. And my friend will have me to reinforce the GTC 20 commandments.

The Golden Nugget was bought by a local Texan, Tillman Fertitta, whose restaurants are very popular with my wife, RT4Ever, and myself (Vic & Anthony’s has the best steak in Houston). He bought it primarily because he wanted a casino within 3 hours of Houston – hence, Golden Nugget Lake Charles, LA. Last year, I think it was, a BlackJack player was banned for winning too much at the Golden Nugget Lake Charles, and the local Houston Chronicle picked up the story, saying the Golden Nugget apparently only welcomed losers. Tillman immediately called the paper and the BlackJack player and said, "No, we want winners, too." And the BlackJack player was welcomed back anytime. From Dom’s experiences, I’d say Tillman’ response is a rare instance of a sound business decision.

Nobody goes to a casino thinking, "I’m going to lose today, so the casino will be happy to see me." So why would any casino think that players will go to a casino that will throw them out if they win too much? EVERYBODY goes hoping they will win mega bucks.

You might wonder why the casinos with that reputation don’t fail. The answer is, they will lose to casinos that are smarter about this. But for now, what has cushioned the blow is that those casinos now make 60% of their revenue from dining and entertainment and only 40% from gaming, so it takes longer for the effect of bad business decisions to take effect.

Organizations like GTC have actually increased interest in Craps and BlackJack. You’re making it mainstream, something ordinary guys, like myself, retired oil & gas, can do. Will most of us become famous, successful, notorious gamblers like Dom? (I thought you’d like the "notorious", Dom) Of course not. But with some instruction and practice, we know we can do very well, meet great people, travel, and have a great time – while making very good money.

Do the casinos lose money when I walk in? Not that I have seen. When I have a good set of rolls, the table fills up. And then, when I’m at the table later, it fills up again. I guarantee that the money I make, and others make on me, is returned multiple times over when the dice go around the table, and when the others make their usual bad bets. None of them become Come betters, even though they clearly see me doing it.

I’ve only been assessing the casino business for 2 years. Even so, I see a change in the industry caused by 2 major factors:
1) New and younger management that appreciate the impact of social media and are open to new business practices that the "old guys" would never consider, and
2) Tremendous competition from the growing number of casinos in this country.

The small casinos that make most of their money from gaming will fail if they don’t change their approach to winners, like ourselves.

Give it a few years, Dom, and you and I will open the first casino in Texas. And we’ll kill the competition. Maybe we could call it, "Mulligan’s", or "Preacher’s Last Stand".

Posted by: Hot Shot on September 20, 2017, 2:09 pm

I don’t see big buy ins out here normally, but it happens.
I never buy in for large amounts or even bet big, but I get plenty of eyes on me when I do the GTC throw at places I play at regularly.
I did get banned from rolling one night when a whale came into the place. He showed up the week prior and then was back the following.
I don’t know what he was buying in at, but he filled his rails completely with $500 dollar chips. no idea how much money it would take to fill the rails with $500 chips, but I know its gotta be quite a bit. They also lifted table limits for the guy, and had suits from upstairs I guess just hanging around. never seen these guys before.

He spoke to me a bit at the table and I just knew I was gonna get some heat. I don’t always do well, but I have had plenty of great rolls in there. I managed an hour and 15 mins – 1.5 hour throw couple months back and never had a problem.
This guy started showing up and boom I got it. They started trying to rush my throws. I’ve timed myself and its normally 8-10secs.
Even one of the pit bosses that is a pretty nice guy told me that they were giving him grief about me.
I passed one time when the dice came to me since that pit told me I should cause of the heat that was happening.
next time he said go for it and roll. I did and even asked him is that quick enough and he said yes. Shortly after that I had these suits from upstairs telling me I couldn’t roll anymore that night, but I was allowed to bet.

I haven’t thrown the GTC way since and I stood out of that place for a few weeks.
I think I just need get good enough to where I don’t feel the need to ease into the game and just have one or two throws and leave.
I spend to much time at the tables I think and they get to know you. I don’t just play the game on a vacation. I’m playing every week.

Posted by: Dominator on September 20, 2017, 4:25 pm

I have always said it is better to get banned than to stay a loser in the hopes of not getting banned.

Honestly, I got to believe that there is more going on here

Dom