In my humble opinion most of the rules you are concerned about are simply casino rules. Here are a few examples that I believe you are talking about:

1. You can’t set the dice.
2. When you throw the dice you cannot reach out past the middle of prop bets int he middle of the table.
3. You must hit the back wall with both dice on each and every roll of the dice.
4. You can only use one hand in handling the dice.
5. When handling the dice you must keep the dice over the table and not raise them higher that the top of the
table.
6. I have seen casinos that offer, in the field bet area, 3 to 1 on the both the 2 and 12 and a zero vig on the 4 and
10 when you buy these 2 numbers. It is an "odds" bet without having to go through the pass or come line.
7. Set the dice quickly.

These are a few examples I do believe these are all casino rules and not gaming commission rules.

What I believe the gaming commission has as rules concerns keeping the game fair and known to both the casino and the player–however we all know that the math percentages are set in favor of the house. Here is an example:

If one die comes to rest on the edge of a chip with two sides of the die being possible results–"which side of that die will decide the winning number." Here the answer is that the side of the die that will be up is the side that would be up if the chip had not been in the way. I think this is written the the various laws of each state. This is only on example something that helps to prevent some if not all the difference in opinions between players and the casino.

Hope that helps and that others will wade in and other information above my pay grade!!!

Doc

Doc or anyone.

Do the individual casino rules have to be written somewhere and are they accessible to the gambler?

Noah

"ACPA" wrote: Doc or anyone.

Do the individual casino rules have to be written somewhere and are they accessible to the gambler?

Noah

exactly this is the kind of thing I’m wondering about. I’ve seen lot of things different from place to place.
I used setting dice as an example. Another would be one place lets you just bet fire bets or hardway bet, etc, where another says must have at least a $5 on a number before you can bet these. I know one place that will allow promo chips to be bet on things like hardways and another that will only allow it on a even money bet like passline.

What are the laws of the game the casino cant change? and if they are allowed to make up rules to the game then are there rules set in place to govern this activity? Someone should be holding them accountable I think. Making up whatever rule you want and not making it accessible to the players does not seem right to me, because as I said dealers could just make up whatever on the spot. I’m ok with whatever rule you wanna come up with as long as I know it before I start. you could tell me dice gotta roll on the table 20 times, hit the ceiling, bounce off the chips, smack the guy next to you in the forehead, then hit the wall for all I care. Just make it known before I start making contract bets.

Rule number 1, the casino is always right , never argue, you will just make it worse, just say yes maam may I have another and then thank them and leave.

Casino’s can trespass you at anytime for anything, they have the right to refuse service always!

Why put yourself in a position that you may regret in the future, like if the casino changes management and the place becomes a great place to play but you where stupid enuff to get yourself trespassed because you did not want to listen to them smarten up do what you are asked always.

Rule number 2 hit the wall with both dice every time.

Rule number 3 always tip this might get you some le way.

When all else fails always revert back to number one so they do not turn you into number two!

Brothelman has stated it very well.

You will not win an argument with them, so just don’t make a scene. If you don’t like what they are doing then take down those bets you can take down and finish your hand and leave. Only in New Jersey can they not prevent you from playing the games, everywhere else you can be trespassed if they want to do that.

The casinos have the gaming commissions in their back pocket so you will not get help there.

It is their ball, and if they don’t want you to play with it they will make sure that you don’t.

I can play everywhere, but there are some places that I choose to not play because of conditions that are not favorable. If my mind is cluttered with worry about potential issues coming from the pit, then I will not play.

NFF

The one rule that may or may not be in effect is: you may not shoot the dice if you do not bet at least one bet on the shooter just before it is your turn. It is so frustrating to be at a crowded table and you get positions 4 or 5 shooters before you will get the dice. Your are five counting the chicken feeders and then the shooter just before you gets the dice, does not make the five count and the dice are passed around you and they tell you, you did not bet on the player just before you. If I am in a new place where I have not played before, I will make a come bet for minimum amount with single odds the shooter just before me.

Your are correct it is frustrating to not know these casinos rules. The rules may not be enforced on every shift. So take notes so that you know where to play and which shift you want to play with.

Doc

"Dr Crapology" wrote: The one rule that may or may not be in effect is: you may not shoot the dice if you do not bet at least one bet on the shooter just before it is your turn. It is so frustrating to be at a crowded table and you get positions 4 or 5 shooters before you will get the dice. Your are five counting the chicken feeders and then the shooter just before you gets the dice, does not make the five count and the dice are passed around you and they tell you, you did not bet on the player just before you. If I am in a new place where I have not played before, I will make a come bet for minimum amount with single odds the shooter just before me.

Your are correct it is frustrating to not know these casinos rules. The rules may not be enforced on every shift. So take notes so that you know where to play and which shift you want to play with.

Doc

you bring up something worth talking about. that rule about you cant shoot if you didn’t bet on the person before you. That’s such BS. Out here they don’t do that, but in places that do that, cant you just toss a $1 on the fire and shut them up?

You bring up a good question about betting a $1 fire bet on the shooter just ahead of you. But what if you can’t make the fire bet without a pass line bet–have run into that situation before. So here is what I do. On the shooter just before me, assuming a $5 or $10 table, I make a $5 or $10 come bet with single odds on the shooters 2nd roll of the dice–my max at risk is $10 or $20 respectively. I can only lose the one bet.

Now if I happen on a $15 table where I can get position and I like the conditions, I make an $18 place bet on the 6 or 8 not both normally the 6 for me while Rose (left handed) will take the 8. Why do I switch to a place bet? If I do a $15 come bet and take single odds I have $30 at risk–a bank roll decision as $18 keeps my bet on random rollers well within the 25% of the amount of my spread as Dom preaches in class. Note I am still at about the same neithborhood at risk with $10 or $20 on a $5 or $10 table respectively–so well with in my comfort zone.

As to not being able to control the spin on a table where the distance from the felt to the top of the rail, I must wonder if this is between your ears—after all advantage play with dice control is probably 85% mental and 15% physical. I speak for myself that most corrections that I need to make are between my ears. If I read you right your are not getting revolutions on the dice. Usually what I do when I notice I am not getting the "revs" I need is to lower my thumb. Also make sure your grip is correct–3 fingers straight across the dice with the middle finger centered and the thumb centered slightly lower that the 3 fingers. I know this helps me and Rose.

I note you say you practice a lot. Do you practice your grip without throwing—perhaps while watching TV on or hold on the phone? I know Mr. Finesse really did emphasize this as part of your practice routine. After the grip is the only time you have 100% control over the dice.

Doc

"Dr Crapology" wrote:
As to not being able to control the spin on a table where the distance from the felt to the top of the rail, I must wonder if this is between your ears—after all advantage play with dice control is probably 85% mental and 15% physical. I speak for myself that most corrections that I need to make are between my ears. If I read you right your are not getting revolutions on the dice. Usually what I do when I notice I am not getting the "revs" I need is to lower my thumb. Also make sure your grip is correct–3 fingers straight across the dice with the middle finger centered and the thumb centered slightly lower that the 3 fingers. I know this helps me and Rose.

I note you say you practice a lot. Do you practice your grip without throwing—perhaps while watching TV on or hold on the phone? I know Mr. Finesse really did emphasize this as part of your practice routine. After the grip is the only time you have 100% control over the dice.

Doc

I think you meant to post this in another thread I had posted

I just came back from a trip were I saw a player set the dice where the stick person could not see the dice . He was told about this and he tried a different way . It still did not help so he gave up the dice to the next roller and left . The next roller 7 out and got the dice for his roll . He did have to make a pass line bet to get to finish the guys roll . Since he did not have a pass line bet .
They said that either a pass line or DP bet will work .
He did set the dice a little different then I have seen before .He also threw 8s and 6s with his throw before they said anything .He also pressed them and made some .Even the pit boss was looking vary hard at his set . He did have a slip of the dice that was called a NO Roll right away by the stick person .
That kind of was the straw that made the pit boss get more up set .
Good Rolling. 😀 😀

Colorado has these rules which are not necessarily unique. These are gaming commission rules.

1. Dice throw must be "intended" to hit the back wall. House rule must hit the wall and most will live with one die hitting and one can be short sometimes.
2. Cocked dice, the side opposite the side touching an obstruction shall be deemed the proper call. This is whether a chip or any thing else except in the dice bowl or bank.
and that is a no roll.
3. If you should bet $5 on the 6 or 8 as a place bet the casino must pay the correct, in the case $7, amount. House will not let you bet $5 because of this and is always
enforced. If they miss it you will get paid the $7 but told to increase the bet to $6. Does not apply to "Big" 6 and 8 where they steal your money already.
4. If a roller abandons his roll the next player finishes the roll then gets his own roll regardless of how many rolls to finish the previous players roll. Pretty common house rule too but Colorado is on the books.
5. Do not have to bet on previous shooter. Some houses try to enforce this but Colorado law is clear. However it is almost always tried when the tables are full.

Dr Crapology’s 1 through 6 are good examples that seem to be enforced everywhere except 3 which is rigid in some casinos and not in others but is a good practice to
follow. Point #7 is to throw quickly rather than "set" quickly but that is hardly enforced anywhere I have played. But don’t dally.
I agree that many dealers believe that the "natural" roll of a dice determines the correct call however check the rules in your state as this is not correct here and besides
who determines the "natural" roll?

Rules for all table games must be posted in a conspicuous place easily accessible to players. They also have to give you written copies of house rules in Colorado on request.

I have challenged casinos a number of times and won on several points mentioned here. In Colorado they must look at the cameras if requested and the game is halted until a determination is made. I have won every challenge. Just do it courteously. Colorado does not have a trespass law like Vegas, Thankfully!

There is more but it’s late and I’m going to bed

OneMoonCircles

Here is a thorough site that lists all statutes (laws) on gambling nationwide, http://www.gambling-law-us.com. It also has a great list of every state’s gaming commissions, should you ever want to file a complaint. My having a legal education (Cumberland School of Law – no, I don’t practice law), I find the site a great resource.

The site offers a full list of gambling law, federal and specifically by state. It is current through 2017.

"Hot Shot" wrote: [quote="Dr Crapology"]The one rule that may or may not be in effect is: you may not shoot the dice if you do not bet at least one bet on the shooter just before it is your turn. It is so frustrating to be at a crowded table and you get positions 4 or 5 shooters before you will get the dice. Your are five counting the chicken feeders and then the shooter just before you gets the dice, does not make the five count and the dice are passed around you and they tell you, you did not bet on the player just before you. If I am in a new place where I have not played before, I will make a come bet for minimum amount with single odds the shooter just before me.

Your are correct it is frustrating to not know these casinos rules. The rules may not be enforced on every shift. So take notes so that you know where to play and which shift you want to play with.

Doc

you bring up something worth talking about. that rule about you cant shoot if you didn’t bet on the person before you. That’s such BS. Out here they don’t do that, but in places that do that, cant you just toss a $1 on the fire and shut them up?

When I am playing at a new place for me, a place that makes me nervous or a place where I have been told that there may be heat I always make a come bet on the second roll of the shooter that precedes me. I always do this simply to show that I’m in the game. When that shooter tosses a crap number and takes my come bet now I have to consider whether I need to risk another bet or not. Usually I simply make a comment to the dealer or box saying I am snake bit to the point of not even being able to even get a come bet to a number. This will acknowledge that I have made and lost a bet. Sometime after the 5 count I may make another bet but will always make a bet on the second roll and hope for a 5-2.

Everyone needs to re-read Brothleman and NF5’s responses as they are right on.

I have had experiences with the gaming commission and have interviewed the commissioner and there are rules. We wrote a show on the Travel Station that was called "What would you do if?" ……. The show would ask a question to the public in the casinos and then we would go to the gaming commissioner and get the rule. One example – you find a $25 chip on the floor what do you do and who does it belong to? Another on the same vain – credits on left in a slot machine – can you play them through? Answer to the first question – the chip belongs to the casino. Answer to the second question – the credit belongs to the casino BUT the will let you play it through unless they think you hunt the casino for these credits and cash them out instead of playing them through.

Craps – rules that are written –
1. Both dice must hit the back wall
2. can’t slide the dice – they must travel in the air
3. you can only pick up the dice with one hand
4. you can’t pick up the dice above the rail – because the boxman has to be able to view them at all times
5. You can’t throw the dice higher than the stickman’s eyes – the stickman needs to be able to view them traveling in the air
6. There are also rules about the dice landing – if they are leaning against the wall …. on top of a chip in play …. on top of the chips in the bank ….

I have also had experience with #6 and actually taking a casinos to the court of the commission. BTK, Nick at Night, and myself took Bally’s Las Vegas to the court of the commission about two years ago or a terrible call made my the stickman during a roll by Nick. Even with the rules on our side – we quoted the rule that is written about such call – we lost the case because as we were told by the commission appointed judge that the burden of proof was on us even though patrons are not allowed to film in a casino and the casino’s eye-in-sky’s recording which was put into evidence was inconclusive. It was obvious that the commission is in the back pocket of the casinos and they will not rule against them in most cases – you can’t fight city hall. I tried and failed.

The casino’s power over the commission and other things is so strong that I was kicked off a radio show in the south that I was featured on weekly because the advertisers, (the casinos) said they would remove their advertising unless they fired me.

My banning from the Bellagio was a rule that the casino came up with and not in the books – that started because I refused to show them my player’s card and told I couldn’t play unless I showed one, and the next night I was banned from The Bellagio. The casinos can ban anyone for ANY reason because of the Innkeeper’s Law. That law has to do with the sale and serving of alcohol and ability of a a tavern to tell someone to leave.

So you can see from someone that has taken them to court, been banned, and so many other things – you can not fight the casinos. They can make up rules as they go along. As NF5 said it is their bat and ball and they can take it away from you whenever they want.

Dom

Gambling is a privilege , not a right!

Before I took the class I was told while playing with 3 GTCers that I could gamble ALL I wanted but could not roll the bones any more . We all had a good laugh about it since I had not taken the class yet .Our group did not say much but the others at the table were up set about it .I just said that it was OK and went to slot to wait for the rest to finish their rolls since I was the driver .
I missed the wall a few times and thought that by the time I was hitting it do to out of position was to late . So it was no big deal . The other GTCer said that they would slide over a little but I thought that would draw more attention then needed at the time . We all had fun and most won a little . If I ever go back I will make sure that I hit the back wall .
The rest of the crew was told a big Thank You and welcome back any time .
It is THEIR Game .
Good Rolling. 😀 😀