Craps

Playing Conditions

Spread the love


The intent of this post is to initiate a discussion. This is not advice or any implication that this is the only way to view this subject. One of the fundamentals of my game is having a plan. As I was planning an upcoming trip to AC I realized that playing conditions was a concept that played a big part in deciding where I was going to play. I know from experience that bad playing conditions can and will adversely affect my results. Some I can adjust to and some I can’t. So in the interest in starting a discussion on the subject I put some thoughts together on the matter.

As my experience with dice control and craps in general has grown I have found myself paying more attention to playing conditions. I understand that I want to play in optimum conditions whenever I can to take advantage of my edge. As I was putting my thoughts together I realized I was creating an outline of how I approach the matter. So I will go with that. This may come across as instruction but please don’t take it that way.

When I arrive at a new property or one that I haven’t played at in a while one of the first things I do as soon as we get settled into the room or while we are waiting for the room to be ready is to take a quick trip to the craps pit. I’m looking to see if there is anyone I know as well as what are the low limits, how many tables are open at this limit and how crowded is it for this time of day.

For my first session I like to get to the tables early with the hopes of having the table to myself if possible. This gives me a chance to evaluate the table ie how tall are the chip rails, for me short is good tall is bad. What type layout. Is it a fresh looking felt, a worn out probably soon to be replaced felt or microfiber. If microfiber what direction is grain running. Also, when I have a table to myself I get the dice quicker and I get a good opportunity to evaluate the bounce and how my shot is reacting to the wall. Later in the day or early evening I will usually find some time to observe one of the low limit tables for a while. Sometimes I will just stand near the table and watch. Sometimes I will buy in but my goal here is to see how long it takes for the shooter to get the dice back, how long does it take for the dice to go around and what is the personality of the table. Are there a lot of late bets, hands inside or a dealer with a hyper active stick. Are the base dealers able to keep up with the action or are they in endless conversation with the players slowing down the game. This gives me a good indication of what kind of playing conditions I can expect to find at this property. I will further refine this evaluation if and when I decide to attack this game.

There are a few situations that I try to avoid. First is the annoying/abusive player. I have had the misfortune to have a player at the table who is both annoying and abusive. I won’t go into the specifics but when someone is verbally abusive to me or the crew or another player I walk. Especially if it gets personal. I would like to be able to say I can let it roll off my back but when it gets to a certain level I know I can’t and my only option is to walk. The second situation is the wedding party or any large group celebrating in a loud manner. In this scenario some of the group is trying to play while the rest are partying thier collective butts off. Often the dealers get drawn into the gala, chaos is the result and the game comes to a crawl. Again I walk. Another situation I try to avoid is when I have my spot,SL1 but my landing zone is littered with chips. I can throw around them some times but often I am struggling to hit the back wall square. If I think that the situation is temporary I will pass the dice and wait it out.

Playing conditions figure into many of the decisions I make in the course of enjoying the game of craps and I hope this thread will draw some interesting and diverse comments and perspectives.


Replies:

Posted by: Butcher on June 23, 2016, 7:15 pm

I created the post to start a discussion but I received a pm from a well respected member of the forum letting me know that my post and the discussion of playing conditions is not an appropriate discussion for this forum. Based on the fact that no one has joined the discussion I guess the forum agrees. So be it.

Posted by: Chuckman on June 23, 2016, 10:58 pm

Maybe I’m missing something. You are not asking for location and name specifics. If I said when you go to Roger’s Barn Casino and Cheese Emporium in Springfield, Vermont wait until Mabel is one of the dealers because she forgets to take down come bets on a comeout 7, that would be inappropriate and against the rules of this forum.

Your discussing general routine. Yours is very deliberate and thorough. Mine is pretty casual, if I am staying overnight at a casino I will usually check in and eat before I play. Since I play at a limited number of places, I do not do the recon work that you do. I hope this discussion continues.

Posted by: Finisher on June 24, 2016, 5:41 am

If I cant reach my come bets table is to High . I dont like being yelled at for setting dice .At new places always look before I leap in to play and listen what is going on for awhile before I bye in .
Even tho I play at casinos only 3 or 4 times a year the dealers know me for the most part unless they are new .Had one say that he thought I was a new player one time . I wondered what he would say if he know that I was playing for 20 years before he was born . 😀 😀
Some times it takes days or weeks before some reply . Hang in there .’
Good Rolling.

Posted by: Butcher on June 24, 2016, 8:57 pm

Yeah I wasn’t trying to generate a discussion on what we like or why. Just a discussion of how much we take playing conditions into account when we prepare to play. My examples were just to show the amount of effort I put into it without explanations of why I like a particular condition. 😉

Posted by: Finisher on June 26, 2016, 5:48 am

Himmmmm I remember when I thought all tables were the same and did not matter were I stood or threw from . Let alone what the crew was like . I was just another poppy that liked to roll the bones . So I think that after we take a class things do change for All for all of us .Some more for others .Also some have more casinos to choose better conditions to play with .IN my state there is no real craps play .
I look to find a place that I feel the conditions are a confront to me since I am short and old.
Good Rolling. 😀 😀

Posted by: The WoW Man on June 27, 2016, 12:51 pm

Your not alone Finisher. Have you considered standing on a platform?

Catch you later!

Posted by: NofieldFive on June 28, 2016, 10:39 am

This is a great post. Playing conditions are of prime importance for us to use our skill.

I have no issues with this discussion.

NFF

Posted by: the gman on June 28, 2016, 1:54 pm

Butcher & nofield five.

Exactly right…playing conditions are vital in terms of the outcome for us.
I keep track of my SRR on the different tables and casino’s we have in our
area and I find there is a big difference between my results on a very
long table, a very short table, a very bouncy table, and a new table that
have very large pyramids and incredibly bouncy off the back wall.

I think you have to vary some aspects of your shot on different tables, but
I also found out real quick that this type of discussion is not welcome here
and I think that is to bad. So I understand I am not welcome here.

I know certain craps tables can be beaten and much of what you learn at
GTC is vital in that effort and the instructors are the "best"….

Best of luck to all that have taken the new classes.

gman

Posted by: Finisher on June 28, 2016, 5:04 pm

gman when I look back on how this site used to be I think it has come a long way to the better. That is that nobody would talk to you unless you had taken the class back then and there were are lot of bad feeling among some .
I try to welcome every body like I would like to be welcomed . I dont know what is the problem that you are having but there are things better left un said on this site . That is way they have the PM thing on this site .
I enjoy reading your posts .It is no big thing if they remove a post . They have some reason or they would not do it .Hope to hear more about your trips .Also hope that we may meet some day .
Life is short so ENJOY .
Good Rolling. 😀 😀

Posted by: RFink13 on June 28, 2016, 6:12 pm

I just took the primer class last week end and I’m already receiving heat. In my second session, I was throwing the dice a tad bit too far and they would bounce off the base of the wall. They were still hitting the wall but not high enough for the pit critter’s liking. He told me he wanted the dice above the halfway line on the wall.

I adjusted my throw so the dice would land further from the wall and it bounced over the wall. I asked the pit critter if that was high enough. He just gave me a dirty look but didn’t say anything. He didn’t bother me for the rest of the roll, but I colored up and left afterwards.

Posted by: the gman on June 29, 2016, 6:37 pm

rfink13

Speaking just for me, I wont do that. If I am throwing a legal
shot and they ask me to hit the back wall harder or higher, I
just continue with my shot.

And be very nice, I just say I am throwing a legal shot and hitting
the back wall like I am supposed to.

A couple of years ago I was in Laughlin and the pit boss was on
my back about that same thing and complaining about gtc
and frank… I just ignored the guy and threw and made sure
I hit the back wall with both dice. He was not nice, but had
no reason to stop me… When I colored up he said when you
see Frank, tell him that crap wont work anyway.

Funny thing is in February, the same pit boss was very nice
and I used the same GTC shot nd he never said a word.

Just be nice, polite and throw a good shot.

gman

Posted by: brothelman on June 29, 2016, 8:34 pm

what the f——————– hitting the wall on the fly is out there, I mean no control at all.

Being asked to do something is not heat, when they tell you to back up from the middle and you do, then they tell you further after a couple of shots that is heat, telling you that you can not lean in to the table that is heat, when they tell you, you can not play, now that is heat.

Now do not get your panties al in a bunch because I gave you my opinion, at least you are trying and that is commendable, we all make mistakes just learn from them.

Like playing right after the class the primer class where they tell you go home and practice before you go to a casino so you do not look stupid but yet what do you do you go right to the casino and then I got heat LMAO.

In the nine years I have been around this website the on constant thing is people getting all up tight when someone gives there opinion on what they wrote, instead of being thank full for the input or help

FYI the house thought you where trying to pin the dice at the base of the wall with a kill shot.

Posted by: The Contractor on June 30, 2016, 1:58 am

The kill shot sure is beautiful though : )

The Contractor

Posted by: brothelman on June 30, 2016, 2:54 am

ya but the greatest kill shot is the one that hits the felt first then the wall lands about 2 to 4 inches of the wall and stops dead that is the one they tell you I want more action of the wall.

Posted by: Finisher on June 30, 2016, 6:19 am

Heat is when you have been rolling and the wife comes up and says to you what is wrong with that PIT boss .Starts talking to him and then says why are you putting up with this . Lets get out of here .
She had more to say away from table about him that I will not say on site .
It just comes with the journey .
Good Rolling. 😀 😀

Posted by: the gman on June 30, 2016, 2:49 pm

Bman is right about heat.

I took several weeks this spring and played craps in a number of states. I
only got it once and that was St Louis. But I did miss the back wall
on one shot and the pit boss leaned over and said " it is obvious you
can put the dice anywhere you want, so if you miss the back wall I
will assume you did it on purpose."

That’s not heat.

gman

Posted by: Goddess on July 2, 2016, 7:42 am

RFink13, were you tipping the crew during that session? Tipping gets the crew on your side. If the Pit Boss cares about his crew, he will not give you heat if you are taking care of his crew. If he still gives heat, then then there isn’t much you can do except leave that table.

We tip whether we are winning or losing, and if we have a pass line bet whether or not we are shooting. We never get any heat.

Goddess

Posted by: Butcher on July 4, 2016, 3:48 am

As NF5 said earlier in this thread " Playing conditions are of prime importance for us to use our skill." Most playing conditions we can’t do anything about, however, as Goddess suggested, by tipping we have a better chance of having an agreeable crew which in a sense can improve playing conditions. I can remember when I didn’t care where I played from. I didn’t tip because I didn’t know I could. I always hit the wall and usually got a piece of the side wall since I threw them as hard as I could. I played hardways, field, Horn. I couldn’t play often because I couldn’t afford it.

Things have changed and definitely for the better. 😉