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    Trip Report: Place Bet and Come Bet Experimentation

    $$Money Shot$$ Posted on
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    Here is a trip report of a recent trip to my local Casino. I tried a little bit of experimenting in an effort to lay to rest the battle between Come Betting and Place Betting. I took a bank roll of $3,000.00 with me. This is what I take every time. I am very aggressive in my betting and a $3,000.00 bankroll is sufficient enough to get me through all of the variances. I began my time at the table with Place Betting. My place betting strategy is as follows. I place the 6 and the 8 for $150.00 apiece and the 4 and 10 for $35.00 apiece. If I hit the 4 or 10 once, I simply say flip it and the hit pays the Vig to take the Place Bet to $100.00. I place my bets before I come out to go ahead and get them out of the way. If I hit a 6, 8, 4, or 10 as my come out point, I simply move the 6 to the 8, or 4 to the 10, or vice versa. The minimum bet at the Casino I play at is $25.00 with 10x odds. I got the dice and for my first come out roll, I hit a 9. I had the 4, 10, 6, and 8 placed and I maxed out my odds at $250.00 on my 9 for a total monetary risk of $645.00.

    During the initial part of my roll, I was able to hit 6s and 8s consistently. The method I use for my Place Bets is press and then collect, press and then collect. For example, if I start out with $150.00 on the 6, I hit it once and press it to $300.00. If I hit it again, I say same bet and collect $350.00. The next hit of the 6 would take it to $600.00. I would collect on the next hit and press it on the next. I continue this strategy until I get to table max which is $5,000.00 or 7 out. I make sure I collect profit along the way instead of taking it all the way down. To make a long story short, I never hit the 9 and I could never get ahead as much as I wanted by Place Betting. After the first 7 out, I continued with the same strategy. I had rolls where the 6s and 8s never came, and rolls where they came in droves. The 4s and the 10s were virtually non-existent. It just wasn’t good. I do not like depending on certain numbers (i.e. 6 and 8) to hit in order for me to collect any profit. There may be a night where I’m throwing nothing but 9s and 5s and if I am not Place Betting those numbers, I will not make anything. There are just too many ups and downs with Place Betting and I rarely have any success with it.

    So after playing around with Place Betting for a while, I decided to go back to Come Betting. I was up $2,000.00 at this point of the game. When I Come Bet, I take max odds from the beginning and I keep making Come Bets. I always leave a Come Bet out so that if I keep throwing repeaters, I stay off and on. I take odds on every number and do not wait for a couple of pay days before I put odds on other numbers. I go straight for the gusto. I may have a short 7 to 10 roll hand, but I am able to hit enough repeaters to where a short roll won’t completely kill my bank roll. If I point 7 out, I take that as a blessing because at least I didn’t get up on a few numbers and then have Big Red show her hideous face. After making Come Bets consistently, I ended up throwing a lot of repeater 9s, 5s, and 4s rarely ever hitting any 6s or 8s. If I would have been Place Betting, I would not have made as much money as I did. To make another long story short, I hit a few pass line points, but for the most part, I kept repeating the 9s, 5s, and 4s with Come Bets on them and came out a winner at the end of the night. Come Betting is the way to go for bank roll longevity and sustainability as well as overall profitability. You will either be a big winner or a small loser by Come Betting. With Place Betting, the variances are just too high and I would not recommend it over the long term. However, if you are set on Place Betting and will not deviate from it, I would suggest that you implement a hybrid strategy.

    Sometimes, depending on how I’m feeling, I’ll place the 6 and the 8 for $60.00 apiece and press them up with each hit until I reach $240.00. I’ll make my Come Bets, but instead of taking money out of my rack to put on odds for my Come Bets, I get paid $280.00 for each 6 or 8 hit with $240.00 on it and I’ll use $250.00 of that collection to put odds on my Come Bets. The 6 and 8 Place Bets end up paying for my odds, so I never have to come out of my rack with money for odds. This is just a suggestion of using both methods. If anybody else has a suggestion, please feel free to chime in. However, Come Betting is the way to go if you want to be a consistent winner at this game over the long term.

    Replies:

    Posted by: Dr Crapology on September 8, 2015, 1:37 pm

    Great thread. I must agree with you that come betting is the way to go using The Big Skinny (TBS). As you suggest in one of your paragraphs a hybrid may be the way to go. Rose and Doc and Rose like to to use a hybrid by place the 6 and 8 along with come betting as over time we hit a lot of them (8 and 6) early in our turns with the dice—not always but enough to make this a good long range strategy. It is amazing how often the placed 6 an 8 will be turned in to come bets, which is where we want to get them eventually.

    We are more conservative in the early part of a hand and only make very small presses to preserve you bank roll in case of a very quick 7 out. After 6 to 8 paydays we will become more aggressive. We don’t press and collect on every other roll but press about 1/2 of the win on the number hit. No thinking just press 50% on each pay day. It is simply and easy for us.

    If I see anything negative in your post it would be that you are betting a pretty big percentage of the bank roll that you bring with you from the "get go"–a Texas slang statement. If you were to have a couple to 3 hands with no or very few paydays, you just might blow through your bank roll in a hurry. For example, Rose and Doc had a recent trip where when we started we simple were not hitting the numbers we had money on (using TBS) but a sufficient bank roll got us through the rough times and we came home winners in the long run. So be careful in sizing your bets in relation to your bank roll. It only takes one time to hurt you and it can happen, even with the best GTC control shooters.

    A great threat and thank you for posting. Hope to see you in the casino soon. Would love to roll with you.

    Rose and Doc

    Posted by: $$Money Shot$$ on September 8, 2015, 3:01 pm

    Thank you for the response Doc. You hit the nail right on the head. I can be a little too aggressive with my betting and end up having some pretty ugly hands significantly diminishing my bank roll. However, I make sure I bring enough to cover those losses when the longer rolls start coming. But, for the sake of preservation, I will definitely reduce my aggression level. Sometimes it pays off, and sometimes it hurts me. I am a really big fan of the Come Bet and Place Bet hybrid strategy by placing the 6 and the 8. I have had really good success with this strategy. Once I press my $60.00 6 and 8 up to $240.00 a piece and end up going up on all the numbers with Come Bets and max odds, let the double dipping begin.

    Once the 6s and 8s start coming in droves as the statistics and probabilities of the game state they will over a longer duration, I collect on the Come Bet pay days and the Place Bet 6 and 8. It is a beautiful thing and just in case I don’t hit any other numbers besides the 6 and 8, the money I collect on the Place Bet pay day makes up for the max odds on the other Come Bets. Another good thing about using the hybrid strategy is that in the event of a come out 7 roll in which the odds come down, the Place Bet 6 and 8 remain out there still allowing you to collect on some nice pay days until you can get the Come Bets back out there and working. Looking forward to seeing you guys in AC. It was fun rolling with you and Rose and I can’t wait to do it again.

    Posted by: TheLion on September 8, 2015, 6:08 pm

    I’d love to see someone (not me) use the 2 different strategies at the AC Big House

    Those stinkin’ blue dice and all of the craps that generate from them could really hurt a serious "come bettor".

    We’ve been hitting a place close to home quite frequently — this past SAT night, a random shooter (drunk as all get out), hit a 6-point fire — the Princess & I picked up $5000 each and a tax slip to boot

    The only thing on Fire in AC are the barrels 2 blocks off the boardwalk

    Posted by: getagrip on September 9, 2015, 6:25 pm

    Ten Man,

    I always enjoy reading trip reports so thank you for posting your report and your thoughts on your recent trip.

    I have to say however, that I don’t think what you wrote in any way "lays to rest the battle between Come betting and Place betting". I am not sure there really is a battle as long as everyone uses low vig bets and actually has an edge on those bets and uses what increases their bankroll most consistently but I don’t believe what you did was a valid experiment.

    From my thinking, you would need to use a much larger toss sample—-like in the thousands at least—to get any meaningful results as the variance between hands and tosses can be quite large even for a good Advantage player. Also, you would need to bet both methods on each hand and each toss to see how they would compare to gain anything meaningful statistically. That is why experimentation is always better in home practice rather than the casino and once you are quite sure of the stats you can always take it to the casino.

    In no way am I trying to say that your thinking isn’t valid or that you might not really find that Come betting is best for you and your bankroll after thousands of tosses. If I had to guess then it is a very good possibility that Come betting is right for you and you just need to refine it with slight variations for your individual results. Just pointing out that your experimentation was flawed so others don’t go to a casino and make a few tosses and then decide that is the best way for them to bet for all eternity.

    Posted by: Butcher on September 10, 2015, 1:31 am

    Interesting post. It got me to thinking. So using a recent roll set of mine from Smart Craps I tried a straight come betting system where I followed TBS without using the place bet on a repeating number but instead used wins to max the odds. Then I repeated the exercise using a place betting "system" where I placed the 6 and 8 after establishing the point pressing up a unit for the first 7 hits then press and pull after that. If I repeated a number I wasn’t on I would place it and follow the "up a unit" strategy after that. Although I rarely get to a 50 count in real life, I used a 50 roll set for this. I then did the same exercise with a 20 roll set, more like real life. My results were that the place betting strategy produced better on the long roll set but the come betting strategy was hampered by the occasional craps numbers showing up, losing the come bet. Also the only way to press the come bets after max odds was reached was to increase the flat bet. When the seven out was added to the end of the roll set The come betting strategy had a better net since I had less money on the table when the seven came and I got paid on the come bet. even using the 50 roll set I never got to 7 hits on any number but I had a nice profit. On the 20 roll set the come betting strategy was the clear winner. I tried 3 different 20 roll sets and the results were the same for come v.s. place. Based on this exercise I will continue to use TBS since I believe this has the best chance of realizing a profit regardless of hand length. If I looked through my roll sets I am sure I could find a roll set that would give me different results but I am confident that for me a TBS hybrid is best for me. Currently I start with a PL bet followed by a come bet. If neither of the first two numbers is a 6 or 8 I will place one or both then continue with TBS. If one of the first 2 numbers is a 6 or 8 I make a second come bet then proceed with TBS. I used this "system" on the 50 roll and 20 roll sets and the hybrid beat both the place and straight come betting strategies. I’m not trying to advance my way as "the" way just saying this works for me. I think each player has to honestly evaluate their skill level, risk tolerance, bankroll and their experience and then decide which "way" is best for them.

    $$Money Shot$$
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