Doc what would be a good amount be for a 401G for a 5.00 player be if he was betting like you do on a 10.00 table .As of now I have no 401Gto speek of . I told my wife that I needed 800 x my bets that I put out and she said that I needed to stop playing for 5 or more years and start saving .
Well that ended that for now any way . 🙂 🙂
Good Rolling. 🙂 🙂

Finisher I know the question was meant for Doc but here is a guide to 401g size as I understand it and practice it. I, too, would love to hear from Doc, Dom, Skinny, Mr. Finese and others on this issue.

Anyway, you want your maximum initial outlay (money at risk) to be no more that 0.5 to 1.0% of your 401g total. So for example, my wife and i partner and play the Big Skinny with 3-4-5X odds on a $5 table. In a worst case scenario, our initial max risk is $85 which would happen if we had the 6, 8, and either the 5 or 9 covered with 25 odds on the 6 and 8 and 20 on the 5 or 9. If we were willing to risk 1% of our 401g, then we would need a 401g of $8500. If we wanted our risk to be no more than 0.5% then we need $17,000 to back us up.

For my wife and I, we about half way in between. Our 401g had climbed to just a bit over $16k and with our recent sacrifice to the Craps Gods, we are about $14,500.

Hope that helps.

jb

Great question. As many can learn from this. Like JawBones we play out of a joint bank roll and bet about 1% of our total bank roll. Our bank roll does take a few hits from time to time but being the "325 hitters" that we are, this allows us to survive the hits and play for the long run with the edge that we have.

Don’t misunderstand me, we only bring a portion of the bank roll on a r trip to a casino casino and leave the balance at home in the safe. We will not go to an ATM, write a check at the cashier cage, or go by a local branch of our bank (we use a nation wide bank like Chase). There are no exceptions. BTY only once in our life have we lost the entire bank roll we took on our trip. TALK ABOUT A BUMMER. But this was several years prior to coming into the GTC family as we were the typical ploppy who had no idea what he was doing. And that’s when we begin reading some books concerning BJ card counting and dice control. We have literally swallowed these concepts hook, line and sinker–which was the best thing we ever did.

We are not gamblers but advantage players. I see so many people at the table who will hit something like a hard 4 hopping (which they talk about for years to come) only to lose it all back over time. They have selective memory. Rose and Doc are not members of this group.

Just my $.02 worth. Hope this helps.

Doc

JB So if you are willing to risk 1% on a given roll then do you bring 5% more or less on or for your trip ?
I need to do more on the money management side in the future .
Good Rolling. 🙂 🙂

First … great topic Doc!

I will get to my opinion on BR maybe tomorrow

Dom

"Finisher" wrote: JB So if you are willing to risk 1% on a given roll then do you bring 5% more or less on or for your trip ?
I need to do more on the money management side in the future .
Good Rolling. 🙂 🙂

Finisher there is no real thought behind how much we bring. We bring $1000 and divide it between us. Just part or our routine. Whenever we step up to a table our buy-in is always $500 each. Even if I am playing by myself, I usually buy-in for $500. If we are staying over night or planning on hitting both of the casinos we typically play in, we will bring up to $2000 with us just so we can buy in for $500 each new session.

Our 1% or less risk is our opening spread; 1 pass with up to $25 odds and 2 come bets with up to $25 odds on a $5 table. Our belief (assumption) is that since we have a slight edge on the house with pass and come bets, we start with enough to have a few turns with the dice to warm up. We figure that if we can’t get a good roll after 6 or 7 times, it just isn’t going to happen. We have never had a session where we got 3 bets up and then hit the 7 an every roll. It is pretty rare not to get at least one or two paydays during one or more of our rolls.

We (I) have had good success with TBS since we have been using it but the last 4 trips have been real bummers.

Now, when we are going to Vegas which we do a couple of times per year, I will bring about $6K and I have a line of credit at one the downtown casinos which I tap at the beginning. I like to make sure I have about $6-8K available for a 4-6 day trip. $1000 of that is for incidentals, meals that are not comped, rental cars, etc. That does not come out of my 401g. I keep that separate and track only my gambling results in my 401g. The spending money comes from an account just for that.

Hope this answers your question.

jb

I contend that luck plays an important factor for winning on short hands.

First let me clarify what I consider a short hand. The math for a random roller produces an average number of rolls per turn with the dice as 8.5255. http://catlin.casinocitytimes.com/article/how-long-is-a-craps-roll-1240 So for the sake of this discussion I will consider a short hand to be 8 or fewer rolls of the dice.

Now the last roll of that count is the 7 which ends the roll. Then we need a roll to establish a point. That brings us to 6 rolls to make money on during a "short" hand.

If you break your spread into 3 bets (pass and 2 comes or pass and 6/8) you need 3 hits to make money on a short hand. So you need to be making a payday over half the time. I contend that requires skill on the level of Dom and Mr Finesse to do consistently.

And that was an 8 roll hand. 3 pay days become even harder on hand of 7, 6, 5, 4, 3 or 2.

I think Doc’s point of losing little is the more realistic goal for short hands.

Another way of looking at it is that there are 6 numbers that you may roll that are not hits also out of 10 numbers that you can roll and keep the dice .So you do need some skill to hit those numbers .That is when you have 3 bets out there .
You are so right that it is some times about the little losses rather the big wins .
Good Rolling. 🙂 🙂

More often than not I do make money myself on my short rolls. I never bet the prop bets, that is a given. I always use the hardways set, and I place the 6 and 8 (if one is not my point) because i tend to hit them very frequently. Because I do not do the 5 count on myself, two hits on the 6 and or 8 makes me money even on an 8 roll, which is my average short roll when I’m not having a really bad day.

In 2002 I started out with about $400 as my bank roll. Thanks to GTC, I now have several thousand dollars, and can afford the bumps in the road during my journey. (Since I was never a gambler, I am still rather conservative in my betting. I have the opposite problem of heavy bettors.)

Everyone should continue building their bankrolls, so you are not afraid to bet whenyou do have good rolls. If you are afraid of the money, you shouldn’t be betting. You should wait until your bankroll can support your game. And please, be sure to make only the good bets.

Goddess

Although I am a student and my skills are still in work, I will offer my .02. I run my bankroll as follows: I bet per TBS. I play on a $10 table most times. My beginning spread is a pass line with odds and two come bets with odds. If my pass-line and 1st come bet don’t cover the 6 or 8. I will place one of those instead of a second come bet. On a 5x odds table I will start out with 3x odds making my beginning spread around $120. I want enough for 3 times with the dice so that’s $360. I usually buy in for $500. I figure 3 sessions per day for $1500. I usually have two good wins ie. doubling my buy-in, every 10 sessions so I figure I need 15K as a bankroll. thanks to my GTC education I have built my bankroll up from a starting BR of $500 to 2x my required 10 session BR. Half of that is from my play. The rest from windfall additions. I now have enough behind me that I can absorb the small loses I have on short rolls. Since starting with GTC I have yet to lose my entire session BR. I give half credit for that to my developing skill but mostly to betting the GTC way. In considering the concepts of the 1% rule I guess my way is a little on the aggressive side but so far it’s working for me. I realize my ROR is higher than if I was more conservative but as I said so far it’s working for me and I can play without worrying about loses. I find that even on short rolls I will get a hit or two so my loses are usually small and even if I don’t. If I get the dice three times, in good conditions, I will have at least one hand in the teens or 20s which will offset my point seven hands. My $.02.:)