Getagrip,

I think more is not necessarily better. I believe one can over-practice. I know I can. I practice at home on average 3 days a week that take one and a
half hours each time. Plus about 30 times a year with Goldfinger and JBW for 3 hours. We seem to split the throwing time pretty evenly so add 1 hour
for an average of 5 1/2 hours a week. This will account for some extra practices from home when the 3 of us don’t get together.

The above is a comfortable routine for me. Your practice however long should be comfortable for you. I feel that practices should be long enough
to maintain and increase over time your muscle memory. It should have a rhythm and the one you use in the casino minus throwing over and over after a 7 at home. Don’t hurry and don’t be slow. Your pace.

Now I am thinking about time ratio. We are generally up the hill 8 hours. Not counting driving time. Take away 1.5 hours for dinner and a little relaxation
time before returning to play. Take 1.5 hours for walking to different casino’s or driving between them to check tables and cash our comps. If there are no other players I usually wait till at least one other player comes to break me from throwing all the time. Some nights tables are crowded and there is no
room or my spot is not open and I don’t play. Some places have only a 1/2 table open and if it is for right handed throwers I will wait a reasonable time to see what happens and at my favorite place they will allow me to ask the players left of stick if they will play from stick right. All must agree or they do not switch. Take 1 hour for video poker although sometimes that hour is also when there is no spot for me at the craps table.

Over all that leaves 4 hours table time. 45 minutes at the tables for each hour of practice. There have been times when the dice are passed on clear around the table back to me and then there are times when small groups will pass the dice (2-3 players) so I get to throw more often. I follow GTC guidelines on randies, one come bet with minimum odds to start, no more. Or no bets at all. Very conservative. If the randies are throwing well tonight
I may not get the dice but once or twice but then I usually go somewhere else or come home depending on the time. So there is a lot of "variance" on time at the tables. Time at the tables about doubles in Las Vegas when we go there to play.

This is an interesting thread, however, I don’t think the practice/casino ratio is as important as a consistent practice routine that fits each individual. People that live hours away from any casino may have 15-20 or even 50/1 while someone 20 minutes away might have 1/3 or 4 if they play often.
Imagine, randies have a 0/1 or whatever and yet a few do make money. There is an older man, late 70’s, that comes everyday to one of the Station casinos
plays $100, leaves win or lose $100. If he wins he makes an excuse every time before he colors that he is late or has an appointment. Dealers told me he nearly always leaves a winner. Has been doing this for many years and is a total randy.

Keep contributing!!

LLAP

OneMoonCircles

Hmmm Well I don’t get to a real craps game vary often . But that may change . Now when I go I play way to long .Like I get up and have breakfast then start playing . I take breaks to go to rest room but other then that I am at the table till dinner in less I run out of money .If I can get my spot after dinner I will be there till I get tired .I am trying to change that but it is hard .
I bet vary little and can last for some time .I have seen people loose thousands while I just loose a few .I enjoy rolling the bones as long as I am not the only one .I also like being the first at a table which is a change from before I took the class .
If you see a BORING Quite game that is the table I am at .It is strange how a vary loud game will turn quite when I get the dice .I guess I have some thing to do with it but I don’t mean for it to happen . But have never been one for high fives and such .
I try to practice every day but that does not happen so the ratio would be way different .Since it has or will be 3 mos. till casino time .
Vary few people pass on rolling were I play if any .I have rolled lots of times when I should have left or gone to bed . I am getting a little better at knowing when to stop but just not there yet .
So I practice 20 to 60 hrs. to 2 days of 6 to 12 hrs. of play I guess .
There is 2 mos. that I don’t practice at all or go to casinos .This year it will be 2 2mos. periods .
Other then that I have a table on my patio and weather permitting I practice .
Good Rolling. 🙂 🙂

Interesting thoughts. I also don’t think there is a correlation. I hope your 1.5 hours of practice is not all at once. You should really break it down into segments.

Dominator

Well can any out there think about how our practice hours would be like others in any other sport or for that matter other things that need you to practice .I for one am getting better at HUNT and PECK since I got on this site . 🙂 🙂
Dom if you want to be in the 10% how much time should be devoted to practice ? You said that you hoped the 1and1/2 Hr. was broken into segments .Can you explain more ?
I always like to end with a 7 then may come back later for more rolls but just in case it is at least like ending in a casino .
When you had more time doing this what was your practice like ?
I am retired so I may have a little more time that I can practice but think that there are some on this site that practice way more .
Just looking for some guide lines . Thank You.
Good Rolling. 🙂 🙂 PS Hope you get a chance to read the book .

Lets start with this …. what it takes to get to the 10% that really make it. (I hope we get a lot of views on this post I am making) :))))

To get to the 10% of all our students that have read the books or taken a class it is not only getting the throw down, but also the betting. Always remember the three things you need:
1. Learn the Golden Touch throw
2. Calculate your edge
3. Bet into your edge

Notice that two out of three has to do with betting! This means trying to avoid the high house edge bets even though you might be able to overcome their edges. Note the words Even though you can over come them!

Practice ……

For many years I broke my practice down to the simplest movements, that is I broke it down into segments. Bill Burton, God rest his soul, during the classes with his students would always tell them to think about the four steps:
1. set
2. grip
3. eye your target
4. throw

In the beginning I would just practice setting quickly. Obviously I don’t now, but I want to state it. I would pick up the dice, set them, and start all over again and over, and over. I would so this for the grip as well, only now I did both things ….. set, grip … look at my grip and make sure all the fingers were perfect and then drop them and start over and over again.

I would practice my swing to make sure it was straight. I did this by just keeping my eye on my swing and throwing the dice, not caring where they landed but caring if my swing was straight across my body … over and over again.

Then the final step, I put a bowl where my target is. this bowl is only 4 inches in diameter, and I would throw into the bowl. I would play a game, how many times in a row can I get both dice in the bowl. Using Billy’s line, 5X is not a record!:)))

So you can see that I really never in maybe the first 4 to 5 years ever worried about SRR. yes, I calculated it and recorded throw, but never really cared. I know that the 7 was going to show. If it never showed I would still be shooting and not able to write this post:)))

I knew that if all my mechanics were good, the SRR would be there. I only placed the 6/8 or only used come bets, because again, I wanted to make the most money on my throw so I bet the bets with the lowest house edge.

After about the first year, I started to put into my practice, practicing with chips and my betting. I wanted my moves to be second nature. I didn’t want to think about what my next move was going to be. I wanted it to be automatic. I always wanted to throw with an empty mind, doing exactly what I was doing in practice.

For 10 to 12 years I practiced 1 to 1.5 hours per day. I would break this down into like 20 minute segments. Morning, afternoon, night. If things just weren’t happening for me in my practice, I would take a few days off, but during the day of these off days, I would visualize my throw. I would do everything, but without the dice in my hands. I would be standing in the kitchen and just started to throw … looked weird to anyone standing there, but that is what I did:))

Now after all these years, I practice about ever other day for about 30 to 45 minutes. I practice what my problems are, breaking them down as before, and I practice with chips for betting …. buying in for say $500 and see if I can double my buy in in those 30 minutes. If I am down, I keep a record of how much and the next day I see if I can make it up. This reinforces my ability to come back from a deficit. Just like a coach at half time being down 20 points, he reminds his team how they have come back before and they can do it again.

I hope all this helps

Dominator

For me, I find the longer I practice the more 7,s I get same as in a casino, many
times in a casino the first couple of rolls are the best I am going to get.

I don’t get tired, but the better my dice look the more sevens I get.

So I practice in short spurts and have been playing like that.

gman

Thanks for the replies everyone!

Dom,
Yes, I practice in no more than half hour segments X 3 per day.

I start everyday with about 10 minutes of just grip practice.

Second I move to barrel dice.

Third I toss about 70 pair of old dice into a 5 inch bowl. Might be a little large but it is what I have. Each of these things can be longer or shorter depending on how it looks each day.

Then I work on any problem areas and I always have enough of those to keep me busy. 😕

Then in the evening I toss a casino session and record numbers and work on betting. Usually 3 hands but again depends on the length of the hands themselves. Won’t go much over half an hour here unless on a long roll.
I am a creature of habit so this practice schedule seems to work for me. I am in Vegas right now and so far practice is paying off for me! 😀

Getagrip Glad that your practice is paying off .
Have you been back to Gold Coast . I have not tried there but have gotten offers from them . But not lately .I hope now that I have taken the class they will let me roll . 🙂 🙂
It was fun tho. Hope we can roll again some time .Did see SussieQ at the great gift rap up .
Good Rolling. 🙂 🙂

"Dominator" wrote:
In the beginning I would just practice setting quickly. Obviously I don’t now, but I want to state it. I would pick up the dice, set them, and start all over again and over, and over.
Dominator

Given Dom’s comment above, I thought it would be useful for some of you to review the following:

How to Set the Dice Quickly

Haven’t posted much lately but sure have enjoyed the thoughts that have been shared. I really glean a lot of good advice and use it to guide my own work. I do breakup my practice sessions and it has helped a great deal to really look at the quality of time spent. Working on the different elements of the toss and really trying to see the dice in the air. I find good back lighting very helpful. I have to say that just being honest with myself when I practice has sure saved me a lot of my 401g. I use the hardway set and like Skinny has said, If you have a lot of sevens coming up, something is wrong with your shot. I know it sounds simple, but for me, I use that as a real nugget of advice when I am shooting. I have a tendency to think I will somehow get lucky in the casino but the reality for me is that if I can not sustain myself and my buy- in at home on my table, then how can I expect it to be different in the casino. So, I practice every day. I focus mainly on my grip. If I see the dice are heading down the table in a straight line and hitting square against the back wall I can usually do pretty well. I have days where my grip and swing are really good. I have some days where my grip just isn’t as fine. At least I can see it now. I have improved a lot since my last class and I know that I am ready for more guidance. Each time I keep putting one foot in front of the other. I know how to bet and my aim is pretty good. I practice a lot more than I play and my practice has made it easier to look more realistically at where I am at in this journey. When I see the years that many have dedicated to this journey it makes it easier to lower my expectations of my own journey. Best of luck to all of you and thanks for all the good posts. Doughboy

Have no idea of the ratio, but Rose and Doc practice about three 30 minute session per day, probably 5 days a week with one or two 30 minute sessions on the other days. It really just depends, as some days be more than others. During the 30 minute time frame we do a short warm up such as throw into a bowl , throw using a mirror (24 by 36 inches) in the craps table (or practice rig) to look at our throw, release, grip—and other ideas. Some times the entire session will be on grip or release. I call this doing the "blocking and tackling" not having a scrimmage. However we do play a lot with chips and play as if we were in a casino. If only one is practicing by him/her self, if you 7 out you take a break as if the dice were passed to someone else.

Doc played basketball in high school and the coach was dead serious about us learning the basics–foot work, rebounding, defense drills, shooting practice etc. I used to hate this but came to realize it was the most important. Then we would scrimmage–sometimes half court and sometimes full court. By far this was the most fun but as Doc looks back the basics were probably the real key.

And that my friends, is why GTC puts such an emphasis on the basics.

Rose and Doc

[quote="Dr Crapology"]

Doc played basketball in high school and the coach was dead serious about us learning the basics–foot work, rebounding, defense drills, shooting practice etc. I used to hate this but came to realize it was the most important. Then we would scrimmage–sometimes half court and sometimes full court. By far this was the most fun but as Doc looks back the basics were probably the real key.

I was listening to a sports talk show yesterday and the topic was the Masters. Sam Snead’s name came up,( tiger is chasing his record for the most wins). They said that his biggest asset was his foot work and stance as he addressed the ball. Interesting because of Doc’s comment.

Our stance is just as important. You ave to be comfortable while picking up the dice

Dominator

For me I don’t know if I see much connection between how many hours I practice v.s. how many hours I play. My results in the casino seem to be more affected by how consistent I am with my practice. I always do better if I have been practicing on a consistent basis than if I cram practice(lots of hours) before a trip.

Doughboy — nice post — how true that is — looking forward to seeing you in LV in June

Butcher — truly a pleasure to shoot with you a few weeks ago for my 50th — thanks for coming to AC to celebrate with me. Looking forward to the next time in AC

Doc — I always enjoy reading your posts — I played basketball for many years — I did not enjoy the practice, but I realized at a young age it was a necessity

Good Luck to all

So have a question for those that only get to casinos 2 or 3 times a year . Do you stay to long at tables if you are just staying even or a little ahead or do you limit your sessions ?
Also if you start at an empty table and it does not fill up do you keep rolling or leave if you have a good roll ?
Lately at one casino I play at it seemed that some wanted to watch and not roll or bet and some wanted to bet but not roll at all. I have seen were there were 8 players at table with 3 betting and playing with 5 just looking with no bye in .This is a crazy game that is getting crazy-er over the last few years .
Now with all the hop bets ,fire ,tall ,small ,all and players not knowing the game or how to keep track of their money on the table .
Good Rolling. 🙂 🙂

I’ll venture an answer here since I fall into the category of only getting to the casinos a couple of times a year.

Honestly, I have no problem leaving the tables when I am up just a little or even. I really do look at this DI stuff as an athletic thing. When my body says it is getting tired then I pay attention and leave. Just standing at the table and doing nothing for a period of time wears on me physically. How I am feeling physically will limit my sessions and, of course, if my toss is not looking good that will limit me as well. I never, ever think about time specifically at the tables. I never say to myself that I will only be here 3 days or that I won’t be back again for 6 months. I try to live in the now when I am playing and not the past or future. I find I can enjoy it more that way.

Now, will I leave an empty table if I feel good physically and my toss is looking the way I want it to? That answer would probably be "No" and especially if I have made some money there. What I will do is lock up a certain % of my win and play with the other part to see if I can win some more. Say, if I have won $300 then I lock up $200 plus my buy in and use $100 for playing another hand. I know there will be many that will not agree with my conservative approach on this as they will say I am limiting my wins. Maybe I am doing that but it is a relaxing way for me to play—knowing I will leave with a profit and not give it all back. How I feel physically will tell me when it is time to leave or the deterioration of my tosses will show me it is time to end that session.

I may not be the norm at Craps so my answers may not inspire you in any way. I really don’t give a fig about playing Craps at all. What I enjoy about it is the physical side of tossing so I want the dice in my hands and I enjoy the competitive challenge and making money. Playing just to play is really not important or enjoyable to me in any way.

I usually only play 2 or 3 sessions per day when I go on a casino trip. I would say on average that might only be three or four hours per day at the tables. I do other non gambling things and I also enjoy watching random games at the Craps tables so I will watch without playing. Variance can make all kinds of things happen that are fun to watch. I also will bet "in my head" when watching Craps to see if I would make any money with different betting techniques. A fun way to make large, crazy bets for fun and not lose any money. 99% of the time I would lose my shirt and my retirement nest egg if I was really betting but always fun to play what ifs in my head!

Sorry I can’t be of more help Finisher but I just enjoy walking away from a table with lots of money more than I enjoy staying and playing.

Hi Getagrip Hope all is well with you and family . I am trying to change my bad habits but it is hard after 30 some years . Then again since taking class have changed a lot that I never thought I would do .When we rolled the dice together I had not taken the class but if I remember right I had to wait for the rest to finish . Had not changed my bad habits then . 🙂 🙂
It was a fun time we all had that day .One that I will never forget . 🙂 🙂
I still have a tendency to stay at the tables toooooo long .On next trip will try to change that . I no longer play when my spot is not open MOST of the time .This last trip I wanted to roll one more time before we left . So went down to find only 10.00 table that I usually don’t play and my spot not open . I should have just went back up stairs .Rolled from hook which I have not done in some time and made just one point with a short roll .
Their was a couple there that had won the fire the night before . She said that after he won it he came and gave her the money right away .He seemed to throw the GTC way and he was not betting other except for the fire .
When I first got to the table I heard his wife say you lost all my money . I looked at their rail and saw a few chips in it .Just saw his last two rolls and did not wait to see him roll again .
There were 2 other dice setters there but they had short rolls too ,
Hope we can roll again some time .Maybe if you come in for the Great gift wrap up we can get together with SuzzQ since that is when we seem to all be there .
Good Rolling. 🙂 🙂

I am glad there were a few answers here because I go to the casinos more than twice a year.

All good points!

Dominator

Dom so getting to the point . 🙂 How is your hours of practice is to hours of play ?
Also have you started reading the book I gave you . I think that you would enjoy reading it . It does have some history in it too that I thought you may like .
I hope that I will be able to play more real craps now that they took away the machine that I use to play on .
Good Rolling. 🙂 🙂

Yes, I read the book and it was great… thank you!

I practice now EVERYDAY for 15 to 30 minutes. I will ether work on one thing or practice with a $300 buy in and start with $10 comebets and just double odds and see if I can double my buy in.

That is about 3.5 hours per week. Now when I went to play with my guys this past week we played for about 5 hours total I would guess. I wont be playing again for another 30 days …. maybe ….. so that would be about 12 hours for 5 hours of play.

I think I answered your question

Dom

Dom Glad you found time to read it as I thought you would like it . Oscar is a great guy . I was just talking to him and he told me that he had 11 more schools to talk to this month and hoped that things would slow down a little .He is going threw a rough time with his son in stage 4 cancer .
He is one of the most positive person I know .
Hope you get to roll after classes .
Good Rolling. 🙂 🙂

My goodness.

I was told about GoldenTouch in January. Bought the book. Went to the web site and bought the video (always surprised when I meet someone who has been doing this for years and does not have that video. For $150 what could be a better investment??) Bought a small practice rig and threw about 2 hours a day.

Wanted to do a live seminar but was going to be busy on A?C weekend this past Jan. Got my friend together and we got a private with Dom. I must have thrown about 3 or 4 hours a day. Into a bowl, practice betting, everything.

In March I had several $1000+ wins (betting quarters and 5x odds) and in April a $10,000 win (actually $9976). Kept practicing long and kept winning. Had to go to the UK. Glasgow for a week (no craps at those casinos), no practice — idiot me forgot to pack dice. London, did well there the first day and then had a couple losing sessions but came back a bit and still left town a winner.

Got back from London Monday just before Memphis. Practiced my ass off (pardon me ladies) for hours a day — yes, sometimes for four hours a day. Arrived Friday, said hello. Went to the Fitz at Tunica. Threw but was hungry. Lost $700 Went to dinner — very good steak house there, good table to throw on (only two, one was open even on Friday night) but generally a second level place.

After dinner I felt happy and refreshed. $10,000 win (actually $9994– pissed me off. Still looking for $10,000).

Came home.

Let my partner rearrange my practice area and slacked off. Not good since. Not horrible but certainly not good. Then, a losing streak. Awaiting my full sized table.

BUT, had a consult in Chicago and was going Wednesday so I took dice. Got a bowl from the hotel, measured off 7-8 feet from the end of the bed and threw into it for two hours (brought 8 pairs of dice) until I got most of them in together.

Not great the next day but I did break my losing streak.

Practice like hell and throw into that bowl. Get the CoachesEye app and watch yourself screw up in slo-mo and figure out how to fix it — best thing here is to do a video with GTC crew so you will know what to look for in your throws.

Getting back to hours per day even if I do it watching tv so I can win big again.

Sometimes when Ihave a losing streak that really gets to me, if Iget a small win I will leave. I just want to break the streak.

I am on a little casino vacation. How many times have you all been down on the first day? So Nick and I are both playing and we both have decent rolls. We are up. We say to each other lets go one more time around. Then 3 young people move into the table who don’t know craps. The dealer is explaining the game it the game begins to crawl. I say to Nick, lets get out of here and take our win. When was the lat time we were up the first day in Vegas?

Leaving with a win on the first day is just great!

Dominator

Good job on the 1st day win, its normally when I get my butt kicked.

"TommyC" wrote: Good job on the 1st day win, its normally when I get my butt kicked.

Yea, the excitement of being in a casino evironment and stuff …… you just want to play and the gambler kind of comes out …..

Lesson to remember!

Dom

We think alike. That win was a small win but, as my lady says, a win is a win.

She is away. Anyone going to Mohegan this weekend?

Confidence + Practice = Successful

In reality, practice takes away luck or randomness altogether. Knowing the likely results has a huge impact on confidence and expectations. While you cannot remove randomness completely you can reduce the impact it has on whatever skill you practice.

I read this information a couple of years ago in relation to the quote. "The harder I practice the luckier I get!"

I have taken it to heart with regard to Craps and my confidence and success have grown because of the practice I put in and also the reading and studying I do. But always room for more improvement! 🙂

Just wanted to put this in a post in case it might help any other players out there to up their game.

Yeah,just in Vegas recently. It took me a couple of days to really relax enough to get my grip right. Too much adrenaline. I always know to start out slow now. I know what the dice need to look like after so much practice. That helps a lot. By the fourth day I was ready and had a couple of good rolls and came away feeling better. It is a big mental element. I definitely feel the confidence building in my shot and that is really what preparation is all about. For me deconstructing the shot and getting back to the basics has been a tremendous help. One element at a time. I look forward to another class in June.

Speaking of Vegas in June… Anyone for golf on Friday AM??