Based on what I see, you indicate an SRR of 6.7 for the 5 sessions you have. This indicates a very small long term advantage over the casino. BUT this is a very small sample. And it is short run. You need a much larger sample at least 5000–perhaps 10,000–recorded rolls to get a really good feel for how you are doing.

Do you have smart craps? This might be good investment for you as well.

I would suggest that you warm up a little not setting the dice and work on the grip and throw-especially the release. Don’t worry about the numbers you throw but how the dice react in the air, as they bounce on the table and how they react off the back wall. That is why you don’t set the dice. Do some drills working on different components of the throw. Then start to record your rolls. I know that in the casino you often don’t get the advantage of warming up, but I would use it when possible in practice. Rose and I often warm up a little in the room using the ironing board as a throwing station and throw on the bed. We made a small receiving box that we put on the bed. This will help you get your rhythm prior to going down stairs.

Hope this will help and answer some of your questions.

Doc

I notice you have hands with only 1 roll. I am guessing those are rolls that are a point-seven. That would be a roll of 2 not 1. You count the final 7 as part of the roll. If you are not counting the final 7, you need to add 1 more roll to each hand.

That would make your number of rolls 3,567 instead of 3,067 with 500 sevens. It would change your SRR to 7.134 from 6.134 for this sample of rolls.

7X7,

You have been on the site longer than I so we have been here 7 years together. Before one can intelligently comment I think I need more information.

1. Has this just started or have you used it long term?
2. How many double pitch outs?
3. Is this the first recording you have done in all these years? ( I imagine you have many thousands of rolls)
4. Do you have a table at home or just a practice rig?
5. How much time between hands?
6. How many come out 7’s are double pitch?
7. 25 hands are greater than 10 which is 12.5% in the two detailed samples, I wonder why so low? Are you losing your concentration?
8. You had 27 one hand rolls in the samples detailed. Were these 7’s or craps numbers?
9. How often do you practice? How regularly have you practiced in the past, say, several years?

I think that one hand rolls should not count. You should count like the 5 count beginning with a box number. I set for 7’s on every comeout, generally hop the 7 and throw about 50% 7’s on the comeout over a practice session. Some sessions I throw only 10% and some 75%. I count these as non hands. However, if you don’t set for the 7’s maybe they should count as a hand. I don’t always play the hop 7’s in the casinos but statistics show that I should. My best is 5 in a row and I have done that several times as well as many 3 or 4 in a row.

My practice session is 120 rolls, period.The last roll is seldom a 7 out. I warm up using Dice Pilot’s hardway game. 10 rolls.

Your samples are too small to be statistically significant. However you had 126 hands of 4 or greater. Go back and chart the first 4 rolls of each hand
and that should tell you on which numbers you have an edge. Then you may bet into that edge. Be sure to start with a box number and only chart the 4 numbers that follow including the 7 outs. I have been doing this the last 3600 rolls and it is interesting.

Unless I have missed something I calculate your SRR at 6.12 for 500 sessions. You might want to consider a refresher or at the very least a tune-up and get to the Friday open house to have your throw looked at.

I believe in statistics and do a pretty thorough job on mine. My consistency is not where I want it so that is my present goal, to increase the consistency.

OneMoonCircles

Skinny, as I understand 7×7’s record, a 1 roll is a 7 and that hand is over and it counts as one of the 10 hands he has in a session. I am somewhat guessing at this but that is how I understand his situation. A point/seven would be a 2 roll.

7×7, let us know.

Doc

OMC brings up many solid contextual questions. At this point I would guess the SRR being so close to random is your concern.

Sample size is very important here. Within a given day of your practice you would need a SRR close to 8 (7.89 I think) to be statistically significant (3 standard deviations.) The larger a sample the lower an SRR can be and be statistically significant.

I agree with Doc. Warm up. Make your practice environment as beneficial to you as possible. Of course the casino doesn’t give you practice rolls or tell everyone to be quiet while you are shooting, but I am guessing your confidence is down. A baseball player who is looking to find their swing will tell the batting practice pitcher to just throw fastballs down the middle of the plate.

7×7, I agree with your approach of maintaining one dice set for all throws. Varying sets makes for more cumbersome data gathering and processing than a static set.

"Skinny" wrote: I notice you have hands with only 1 roll. I am guessing those are rolls that are a point-seven. That would be a roll of 2 not 1. You count the final 7 as part of the roll. If you are not counting the final 7, you need to add 1 more roll to each hand.

That would make your number of rolls 3,567 instead of 3,067 with 500 sevens. It would change your SRR to 7.134 from 6.134 for this sample of rolls.

Skinny: Please see my definition of a "hand". There are many hands of one count.
Doc: SRR average for the 500 hands is 6.1
Warm-up is not real-world.
Yes, a 1 roll is a 7 and that hand is over and it counts as one of the 10 hands.
OMC: This is not a casino similation play, so no "come-out seven".
Chuckman: Yes, SRR of 6.12, but we don’t have to be so accurate to 2nd decimal.
Cannot set for 7 at start of hand and change to Hardway set for the
rest of the hand. Have to be consistent.
Will answer your numerous questions later, since more questions from
you and others may overlap, with some redundant.

Am looking for more comments, observations and opinions.
Appreciate the responses so far. I will express some opinions, too, later.

Hi 7X7,

First off, Thanks for posting and stimulating our Craps minds! 😀

I don’t think SRR tells the whole story although it is certainly a statistic that I think we all look at as an indicator.

My question would be: in those 6.12 average rolls how often do you repeat numbers? Do you usually make money on those rolls with the betting strategy that you use? If so, then 6.12 is nothing to worry about although I am sure every one of us likes to see that SRR as high as possible.

Guess what I am getting at is as an example, if you toss a hand of 5 and you can repeat the same number 4 times then even though it is a short hand it feels like a pretty good hand. If you toss a hand of 12 and 7 of those tosses are a horn number or a 7 or something that you are not betting on and 4 of those tosses all repeat the same number then you basically have the same hand in both of these examples as far as winning money is concerned. Actually, for consistency sake in my toss I would almost be happier with the shorter hand thinking that I was doing the same thing in my toss every time and just made one mistake.

If we can figure out a way to be pretty consistent and bet into that then there is money to be made. Even if you are consistent in tossing 7’s with a certain set then you can bet don’ts and still take money off the table. Variance is always out there but if we can even win 1 in 3 and not lose too much on the 2 we do lose then we are still going to make some money at this game we love.

These are just my opinions and I have many lessons to learn so hopefully others will chime in with their thoughts and keep this thread going!

Well I think that it is great that you can do this . I for one can not do this . I can have maybe two sessions in one day .I count every 7 period . Just like in a casino . If you get the dice in the casino you have them until you 7 out so that is the way I play in practice . I may get 10 hands in and then again I may not .

I don’t think that I have ever thrown the dice 600 times in one day in practice . More power to you if you do this day after day .
I do practice with chips so between paying the wins and reaching for the dice it does take some time . I think that the time is about the same as in real play in a casino when there are more players there . I have never timed my sessions tho .
Some one on this site may know what that number should be for an hour .Like 600 rolls should take x number of hours .
Do have a question . What is the time between sessions ? You do 10 hands and 10 sessions per day but there was no mention of time between sessions .
If I have 2 sessions in one day there may be 1 to 4 hrs. between them .
In real casino play I some times take a bath room break after my hand is over .Thinking now I never do in practice .
I agree with getagrip about throwing repeaters would be great in small rolls . I wish I was to that point .I seem to throw every number including crap numbers then 7 out .One night I did this 3 times in a row and the guy next to me loved it . Since he had a system of betting all across with taking down the bet when hit . He had nothing on table every time I 7ed out .
Some on this site say they try 3 hands and if not looking good will take a break . If they used your way of play for hands they may walk real soon .Just kidding I know they would not think that throwing 2 or more 7s on come out as hands .
Also some say that on come out rolls is a time that you may want to relax a little and just throw the bones with out any stress on you .
One thing tho is that if you count every come out 7 as a hand then your SRR is going to get small .But it is a win unless you are on the D side .That being said I calculate both 7s .Some times that can vary by as much as 1 to3 points .
I do not think about my SRR to much since my record in practice is 17 rolls before est. a point number .I hope that I can break that one day in a casino .
Good Rolling. 🙂 🙂

"SevenTimesSeven" wrote:
Skinny: Please see my definition of a "hand". There are many hands of one count.

Yes, I went back and reread your post. I see what you mean and agree with your numbers. You had 500 sevens in 3,067 rolls giving you an SRR of 6.1.

Finisher, OMC,
Before we go off track for this discussion:

(1) Again, the data collection was not done with casino play simulation in mind.

(2) The data was portioned into ten hands per session, ten sessions per "day",
and five "days" for ease of calculation and clarity of display of results.
Actually the throwing was done in batches of two sessions,
at a rate of about three throws per minute (including retrieving the dice).
There were huge gaps in between for rest and other home obligations.

(3) Yes, SRR is not the only and may not be the most important aspect
of controlled dice throwing, but it is one aspect that is not subject
to personal judgement but also is very measurable.
And that is the aspect being discussed here.

(4) Yes, this topic is introduced not only for adding some more life into the
discussions on this forum, but also to search for some diverse thought inputs
on the issue of the SRR. Which, I repeat, is so meaurable and can be used
to determine whether we are progressing or deteriorating in our striving
to be dice controllers.

7×7 That is one of the reasons I wanted to know the timing . It is some times in-portent in that you may be in a rhythm when throwing or not .Some on this site say they get in a zone and loose track of what else is going on .
Also that is a lot of rolls per day at least for me .I use a sheet that keeps track of 120 rolls but never go to a second sheet in a session . It also shows at a glance what numbers I have thrown.
This is a journey that will be up and down just like all others .Hope that it only gets better for ALL of us .
3 ROLLS PER MIN. IS LIKE 180 PER HR. That is 3 Hrs. of practice which I I have done but not with that many rolls .
Maybe you need to slow down a little since the record is 4Hrs, 18 Min with far fewer rolls then you do .
The way you practice you may get upset in the casino when the dice are not coming back as fast as you are used to . Just a thought to think about . Sorry about getting off track .
Your and my SRR will go up and down like everybody does .That one on the come out makes for a smaller SRR .just LIKE A GUTTER BALL OR A SLICE IN GOLF .
Good Rolling. 🙂 🙂

"Finisher" wrote: 7×7 That is one of the reasons I wanted to know the timing …….
3 ROLLS PER MIN. IS LIKE 180 PER HR. That is 3 Hrs. of practice which I I have done but not with that many rolls .

Please reread that the practice throws were done in batches of two sessions per batch,
with rest or break periods for home duties in between batches.
The biggest batch shown, with two paired sessions on the second "day",
(the "day" defined as a set of ten sessions and not a true day as in 24 hours of time):

9, 8,14, 6, 1,22,5, 9, 2,20 = 96
4, 5,3,12, 1,13, 5,10,10,9 = 72

… this showing 96+72=168 throws in 56 minutes, the longest practice batch.
Other batches, you will observe, are much, much shorter.
The overall average was 61 throws per session in about 20 minutes,
that is about 40 minutes of practice for two batches.

I try to end each roll with a 7 .
The time does not matter if you are not getting into a rhythm of some kind I guess . This still shows that SRR are going to be up and down .In the long run we all hope that it goes up .
Good Rolling. 🙂 🙂

7 x7,

Curious about what other stats you keep on your tosses? Also would like others to write in and let us know what pieces of data they keep and find meaningful and why?

Do you look at % on axis?
Box numbers to 7 roll ratio?
Top two numbers tossed with a certain dice set?
Any others?

The above are ones I personally like to keep but not everyone will feel the same way.

If you keep other stats are they gathered on other toss sessions or the same toss sessions as the ones that you record SRR? Just trying to get a better picture of what you feel are important stats and how you gather them. I do understand your explanation of how you are counting a hand and that you are not betting or doing payoffs/casino simulation during these hands. I would still think you are trying to toss "like you would" in a casino or the information would be no good. Therefore, I think the numbers on those tosses are important to analyze as well as the SRR. Of course, if one is just practicing to improve or fix one aspect of a toss then statistical analysis would not be beneficial on those tosses.

Do agree with others who have answered here that maybe you are rushing the amount of tosses per minute. You might well toss 3 times at a casino table in a minute depending on payoff time of dealers but you are not having to walk to shag your own dice and physically reset your body each time in the casino. Maybe experiment with some sessions of less tosses per minute to see if SRR goes up. Also agree that with statistics it takes a lot of data before analysis can be done to get any meaningful information but bad ( read rushed) data won’t really help either as it is then not a true picture.

Hope more discussion will come in as I am enjoying your thread! 🙂

Getagrip,

Here is the data that I collect in my practice sessions. I roll 120 rolls. Dice are one red and one another color. Also dice are used 6000 rolls per 2 sleeves.
The red dice is to the inside of the table, pointing to the boxperson.

1. Left and right dice results
2. Comeout sevens which are set to produce a 7 and whether are on axis or both off axis (any 6/1 combo). I should track this more vigorously. I roll
30 to 80 percent of 7 outs averaging around 50%
3. Seven outs
4. Seven outs that are double pitches
5. Points made
6. Seven outs that are a one off axis result
7. Point 7 outs
8. SRR for the session
9. SRR for the month
10. SRR for the 6000 (long term)
11. Number of hands 10 rolls or longer not including the 7 out at the end of the hand
12. Number of hands 10 rolls up to 20, up to 30, 40, 50 and above
13.Number of rolls of each number 2 through 12
14. Number of hardways (even though I rarely roll the hardway set, usually the 2V)
15.Percentge of hands 10 or greater compared to total number of hands
16. Primary hits including primary 7’s on comeout
17. Secondary hits (any result with one die 1/4 turn on axis)
18. Double pitches
19. Any one dice off axis and which dice
20. Both dice off axis
Note: 16 thru 20 are calculated as a percentage of 120
21. I track the first 4 rolls after the comeout point is established, a 7 out stops the count
22. Every 6000 rolls I calculate 16 thru 20 percentages to find the average and keep that info for a couple years
23. I track the number of documented practices rolls, now nearing 102,000
24. I track whether the sessions were profitable by session, by month and by year. However, this figure has little significance because
if I had a big win in a casino I would take my winnings and come home. I do this one mostly for fun and usually it shows losing money.
25. I have calculated the results of an SRR of 9.These are not to any decimal point as that would be fruitless. There should be 7 twos and twelves,
15 threes and elevens, 21 fours and tens, 28 fives and nines, 35 sixes and eights and lastly 13 seven outs. As you may see this is 119 rolls and the 1
more roll accounts for all the fractions. This does not account for me setting the 7’s on the comeout as this would increase my SRR to unrealistic goals
26. Percentage of hardways compared to expected for an SRR of 9 using a 2V set. I only calculate this on a 6000 rolls basis

All of this is tracked on a single sheet which I copied from Sharpshooter’s book. Being a printer I modified it to give much more info than the
original. The exceptions to this or rather additions to this is that tracking the 16 thru 20 results are on a separate sheet for 50 sessions (6000
rolls) for calculating the averages at the end of the 6000. Also the 4 rolls after establishing a point are kept separately and tracked on only 3000 rolls.

Practice session runs about 90 minutes including all calculations afterwards. I practice 3 times a week plus one with Goldfinger and JBW that are not documented. In addition I practice with friends and my son that are also not documented though this is infrequent. I think this has more info than SmartCraps excepting which set one should be using if not the 2V.

I hope this isn’t too long and makes you sorry you asked!

OneMoonCircles

OMC I do the RED die right also .
I also do Number 1,3,4,5,7,8,9,and 14 .All on one sheet .
I vary seldom do 120 rolls tho .Even tho I have been retired for 6 yrs. I have other things to do .
With all this info do you still see your SRR going up and down or have you gotten to a point were it stays about the same all the time ?
Maybe I am not putting enough hrs. in practice .
I also need new dice since it has been some time since I CHANGED THEM .
I can get more info out of what I have but I don’t think I want to .I do put it into smart craps to see pro 1,2,3 results .
Good Rolling. 🙂 🙂

OMC,

Well you certainly can’t be accused of "putting all of your eggs in one basket!"

I think my eyes would roll up into my head if I analyzed as many things as you do but you HAVE given me a couple of ideas. No, I am not sorry I asked! 😀

Don’t want to take over 7 X 7 thread but hope to meet you at a GTC event some time and then we can discuss your stat fetish!! 😉

OMC, I admire your total immersion into the recoding aspect of this phenomenon called craps. How is recording all those stats working out for you in the long and short run. Are you profitable both long and short term knowing all the information. I have tried some of your elements but not to your extent. Professor

P.S. why is everyone so concerned with SRR anyway when, I think, average # of rolls is more important. One can maintain a 7.5 SRR (which most would say is good)and actually have very short rolls. A 7.5 SRR is not the number of rolls but a ratio of throwing 7’s. Professor

Stat fetish, very funny!

Finisher, I get 3 to 4 1/2 hours per week practicing (not counting my time with Goldfinger and JBW or others). I know Frank does about that or at least did but he broke it up differently. Amount of practice varies
for each of us and sort of depends on what you think you need, want or like to do to get yourself where you want to be.

Keeping of the details for me is assurance that I am heading in the right direction as I see it.The calculations only take about 15 minutes partly because many of them are done as I go.

SRR while perhaps not the best indicator when done over many rolls I believe to be pretty accurate. Frank goes into more detail in his books and if you are
getting a lot of craps numbers a high SRR doesn’t mean much. Another good reason to track. Some practices I get no 2’s or 12’s but I can’t recall ever getting both on the same practice. When there are a lot of 3’s and 11’s those practices tend to be better practices because 1/2 and 6/5 are secondary rolls from the 2V set. If you understand the set you are using and know the outcome (primaries, secondaries, etc.) you can see as you go how you are doing. It
is much harder to determine in the casino because of the same colored dice but if you focus on just one dice then it is very easy to determine where your throw is.

My last 6000 rolls SRR was 8.85 up from 8.31. In January my monthly SRR was 9.03 so it varies but is slowly increasing over time based on the 6000 rolls. I only have a practice of SRR 6 about once a year but sometimes twice and don’t do nearly as well if I have been sick and try to practice anyway. Hint: Don’t play if you are not feeling well.

GTC is correct. This is a game that is all about the math. It is so easy to track I am surprised more people don’t do it.

Professor, I am profitable in the long run, particularly since taking the primer. I am not as profitable as I’d like and that is because of the way I bet or rather don’t bet. I don’t bet heavily enough on myself when I am having a good roll. I do think that is common amongst us.

OMC

7X7

Other than a conversation piece which has been interesting to follow including instructors that jumped to conclusions without thoroughly reading the post, I don’t feel this a valid (I did the same thing to a certain extent) test of SRR. Here is why. Hands do not end with a 7 on the comeout. They only begin with a
box number. Junk in, junk out. Valid results cannot be obtained with invalid input. Is this your intent? Also any craps to start followed by any 7 before a box number is not a valid hand either. Live play and practice hands begin with a box number for any accurate measure of your SRR.

OMC

OMC,

I disagree with your conclusion.

I do agree that rolls don’t end with a come out seven. And if you are computing average roll length instead os seven roll ratio your conclusion would be correct. But he is computing seven rolls ratio (SRR) therefore all the sevens rolled need to be counted.

Now for instance, I try to roll a seven on come out and use a sevens set for come out rolls. I switch to a hardware set after a point is established so I count all my rolls to determine my average roll length but only use the Hardway rolls to compute SRRR.

OMC I tired on smart craps got SRR OF 9 .
Good Rolling. 🙂 🙂 i tried a roll of 2,3,11,12,3,5,5,6,7.

Now that we have the practice data using the hardway set,
and I put forward that I can confidently extrapolate a 6.0 SRR
+/- 5% if I should continue,
here’s what will be interesting:

I WILL NOW USE THE ALL-SEVENS SET and collect some data
for your delectation and your comments.

SXS It seems to me that SRR is like average in bowling . In some sort of way . If you have a come out 7 for a win which is good but it does make it harder to increase your SRR . Like a gutter ball does in bowling kind of ?
You can still make money with a SRR that is low if you are throwing a lot of 7s that win you money and not let you loose control of dice .I don’t know the math that it takes to show how throwing come out 7s affect your SRR as far as making it harder to raise it higher . Iam just saying that you could have a long roll with an SRR that is low and not feel bad about it .
Maybe a math person can add to this .
Good Rolling. 🙂 🙂

Gentlemen,

Comeout 7’s are part of the hand. Setting for them or not. If you roll a crap the first 3 rolls and then a 7 you have not yet established an end to the hand
by rolling a box number. Are you not counting the craps as part of the hand, certainly you should. The 7 prior to a box number but after the craps does not end the hand.

Average hand length and SRR are one and the same. To check this out just do some simple math. It is easily proven.

Personally I do not count the 7 out as part of my hand. In reality it means that my SRR indicates less than actual. I do this to keep my ego intact and
it is conservative because that is me. All of my other numbers also are lower than they would be otherwise. This is what keeps me striving to reach
higher ground and if I really am better than the numbers, guess what? I benefit.

7×7 I await your results with anticipation.

OMC

When a controlled shooter is using the hardway set, he is attempting to avoid throwing a seven. Any seven thrown with the hardway set is a poor throw. It does not matter at what point in the roll it appears. While it is true that a seven on the come out roll is a winning throw for the shooter in a casino, he has still made a bad shot as a controlled shooter.

SRR is an acronym for Sevens to Rolls Ratio. That means it is a mathematical term for the ratio of sevens thrown to the total number of rolls. Thus there are only two numbers that are relevant when calculating one’s SRR. One needs to add up the total number of times the dice have been rolled and how many sevens are thrown during those rolls.

It does not matter how you want to count those rolls. 7X7 can have one definition of a hand and length of session, OMC can use a different one, Finisher can be happy with sevens on the come out roll. None of that makes any difference in determining ones SRR. 7X7 has listed a set of rolls that he threw in practice. It consisted of a total of 3,067 rolls with 500 sevens. Those are the only two numbers that are relevant for determining SRR. His SRR is 500 to 3,067 or 1 to 6.134 because 3,067 divided by 500 = 6.134.

It does not matter how one decides to break rolls up for the purpose of counting your rolls or what you want to call a hand or session. Some people throw the dice 100 times and quit because 100 rolls fits nicely into a 10X10 array on a sheet of paper. Others may decide to count their rolls in a session for a specific time period. In the end it all comes down to the same thing. The SRR is determined by two numbers.

As a controlled shooter, you want your SRR to be as low as possible when using the all sevens set (1 to 1 is the best) and as high as possible when using the hardway set (1 to 6 is random).

Skinny,

Thanks for clearly clearing up the confusion about the different ways
of data collection chosen for convenience and ease of SRR calculation.
And for reminding all of us the concise definition of SRR.

Now, unto gathering some more practice data but this time making one change,
using the ALL-SEVENS SET. All other things remaining the same.
Velly interesstingg. No?

7×7

STS I just have a question about your first post .Why would you not want to practice your sessions like the real ones in a casino . Your roll or session would end in a 7 out in a casino not a 7 on a come out roll .
I prefer to end my sessions on the 7 out in practice . Then I know if I was getting better at longer rolls .If I ended them with a come out 7 I may not know if I missed the longest roll of my LIFE . 🙂 🙂 🙂 Just a thought for are we not looking for that long roll and how to deal with it when it comes ?
Has your SRR gotten any better?
With a handle like your would have thought that you set for 7s .
Good Rolling. 🙂 🙂

Finisher,
Forget about "come-out" sevens. Does not compute.
Please refer to Skinny’s concise dictionary on the definition of SRR.
7×7

7×7 You say forget about come out 7s but in Skinnys answer they need to be counted in for your SRR . If YOU END YOUR ROLL WITH A COME OUT 7 I think that you would not be getting the real SRR of your practice . I may be wrong but it would be like playing golf and on the 3rd hole you say I will finish tomorrow to get to get the rest of my holes in for my handy cap .
I think that you would want to know if you can last till you 7 out rather then leave and start all over later on .Some get better as the roll goes on and other tire out .
I like to finish the roll be it a 2 roll one or 50 rolls .Even if there are come out 7s in that roll .
Maybe others on this site like the way you do your practice sessions which is up to you and them . I am just saying that I do my just a little different .
I did say before that when looking at SRR YOU COUNT all 7s .
So at the end when you want to see your SRR do you add a 7 if the last number was not a 7 ?
I also was trying to get back on track since you did not like when it started to go in a different direction .You will find that there are as many ways of practice as there are members .
Good Rolling and you are welcome to try out my table if you are ever in Phoenix Az.

Finisher,

When you are throwing for your SRR you just throw 100 times count the Sevens and divide.
You do not play the game. There are no come out sevens,no come out craps,no end of hand.
You just throw and count.

Goldfinger

Goldfinger I thought that this post started about PRACTICE not practicing on how to get a good SRR
Is THIS THE WAY you PRACTICE . I am just saying that I like to practice as close as I can as to how it would be in a casino .Which is for me when I end in a 7 out .
I look at it this way . A session is when you stay at a table till you color up .
A roll is till you 7 out and the dice go to next player .
I would not stop at 100 just to see the SRR if the 7 was not the last number thrown just because I think you still need that last 7 to make it right .
So some times I look at the SRR at 80 rolls and some times I look at it at 100 or more then at end of Month OR 6 Months .
I think the SRR thing is not as importunate as your grip or you throwing repeated numbers .But when you throw come out 7s your SRR is harder to keep high .That is what I am trying to get across .Some of the best rolls could have a LOW SRR just saying .
So do you add one more 7 if the 100 roll was not a 7 or just go with what you threw ?
Good Rolling. 🙂 🙂

Finisher,

You keep talking about come out sevens as if they are a good thing. If you are using the hardway set, you are trying to avoid the dreaded seven. Come out sevens are not good. They are bad throws.

I understand you want your practice sessions to simulate live casino play and that is fine. But to think that come out sevens in practice are good is not correct. They are bad throws that need to be fixed.

Just because a come out seven does not hurt you in the casino does not mean it is an acceptable result in practice. You are doing something wrong when you throw come out sevens in practice unless you are using the all sevens set and trying for sevens. If you throw a lot of come out sevens in practice you need to find the cause and fix the underlying problem.

As far as SRR is concerned, SRR can tell you whether you have an edge or not. But it can not tell you if you have control over the dice. That can be done with SmartCraps because SmartCraps measures 3 elements of the throw to determine if you have control of the dice with statistical confidence.

Skinny If you look back my point is that come out 7s make it harder to get your SRR UP , LIKE A GUTTER BALL IN BOWLING .So with that said do you really think I think come out 7s are good .
Good Rolling. 🙂 🙂

"Finisher" wrote: If you have a come out 7 for a win which is good but it does make it harder to increase your SRR …
You can still make money with a SRR that is low if you are throwing a lot of 7s that win you money and not let you loose control of dice … Iam just saying that you could have a long roll with an SRR that is low and not feel bad about it .

"Finisher" wrote: But when you throw come out 7s your SRR is harder to keep high .That is what I am trying to get across .Some of the best rolls could have a LOW SRR just saying .

I got the idea from your comments above. In both cases you are saying it is not bad to have a low SRR if it includes a lot of come out sevens. I was disagreeing with that concept.

If you also think come out sevens are not good then we are in agreement.

I look at a come out 7 as the same as an error in baseball. The runner’s on base but his batting still gets dinged.

I do not set for 7s on come out period . I have tried this in practice a few years ago with no success. So I don’t do it in a casino .
When you get a come out 7 in your roll that also means you made a point for a win .It also means that you still control the dice .Some on this site take the come out roll as a chance to relax some and just throw the dice .Also may take some of the heat from your throw from pit critters .
I do not know how to explain the math that it takes to show the effect the come out 7 has on your SRR . But I know that in a long roll most of the time you will get one or more that you did not want .(SETTING FOR THEM OR NOT ) The SRR would have been better if there were none .
S happens you know too often .
I remember when I took the class they said the 3/4 and 2/5 was a good 7 but did not tell me how not to get them . I am guessing that is in another class that I have not taken yet .
I think that if you have a roll with a lot of PWs and come out 7s that your SRR should not matter .The winning is FUN .
Good Rolling. 🙂 🙂