• Craps

    Odds on the Small-Tall_All bet for a GTC-er???

    Scooter Posted on
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    Have been only playing of late at casinos that have the Small-Tall-All bet and would like to know how to estimate the odds for a controlled thrower that has a better than random SRR? Say a 7, 8 or 9.

    The SMALL and TALL pay 35 to 1. The ALL pays 176 to 1. I realize this is a "long" bet but some of my recent wins have been the result of betting heavier on this when controlled shooters are throwing.

    Some of the crew I’ve been throwing with lately, Norm / Hard Way Joe / and myself have hit this. Needles to say when we do the players at table really generate high energy. Please help me with the odds and continued strategy. Thanks.

    Replies:

    Posted by: Finisher on April 3, 2014, 4:45 am

    I have not played were they have this bet . So if you have a come out 7 after you make your point does this bet go away ?
    I understand that you make this bet after a 7 is rolled .A start of new roll right ?
    The small is 2,3,4,5,and 6 ?
    The tall is 8,9,10,11.and12 ?
    The all is all right ?
    Good Rolling. 🙂 🙂

    Posted by: Goddess on April 3, 2014, 8:44 am

    Yes, the bets all come down when a 7 is thrown. However, you only have to hit each number once at any time in the roll, unlike the fire bet, where the numbers hit have to be an established point. The small and tall numbers are correct as you listed them. I don’t know how to calculate the odds, but I’m sure they are pretty high, as is the fire bet.

    Goddess

    Posted by: Dr Crapology on April 3, 2014, 12:12 pm

    Once played at a place where the Small, Tall and All was on the craps table. I fellow stick right down by the dealer made the bet. I rolled all three bets and he won big time–$10 on all three bets. I did not make the bet. I kiddingly said you should tip the roller. He threw me a %25 chip. As the dice went around the table he got the dice and he too made all three bets—I had 3 dollars on the bets. I then tipped him back the $25. It was really pretty funny.

    Question: since the Small Tall and All requires you to all the numbers including 2, 3, 11, 12. If you should you make the STA using the hard way set, might this indicate that your throw is off axis??? Just wondering.

    Doc

    Posted by: RFink13 on April 3, 2014, 3:58 pm

    The calculation would the odds of rolling a six vs. a seven times the odds of rolling a five vs. the seven, etc.

    i.e. 5/11 * 4/10 * 3/9 * 2/8 * 1/7 = 120 / 55440 or 0.22% chance of success. Odds = 461:1 against.

    The house pays 35:1 on a bet that’s 461:1, that’s mighty nice of them.

    That’s for the tall or small bet. The all bet would be odds of the small bet times the odds of the tall bet since you have to do both to win.

    (120/55440)^2 = ~213444:1 odds against and they pay 175:1.

    Run don’t walk away from those bets.

    *Edited because I used the wrong formula the first time.

    Posted by: Chuckman on April 3, 2014, 7:01 pm

    House edge for the bets per Wizard of Odds

    Tall or Small bet 7.76 house edge

    All bet 7.99 house edge

    http://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/appendix/5/

    So that is the edge for a random roller.

    Posted by: Scooter on April 3, 2014, 11:07 pm

    RFink13 – I think you may have used the wrong formula. Can you check it against Wizard of Odds? Thanks

    My question still remains – Does a controlled shooter have an advantage when playing this bet? My experience tells me – YES, but I’m looking for mathematical proof (formula) based on SSR’s 7 or greater.

    Posted by: Dominator on April 4, 2014, 11:14 am

    "Scooter" wrote: RFink13 – I think you may have used the wrong formula. Can you check it against Wizard of Odds? Thanks

    My question still remains – Does a controlled shooter have an advantage when playing this bet? My experience tells me – YES, but I’m looking for mathematical proof (formula) based on SSR’s 7 or greater.

    Sorry, right now I don’t have the time to do the math. I am sure that my master math man Skinny will take the time to do this. Gut tells me that an SRR of 7 will not beat this bet

    Dom

    Scooter
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