Every individual who uses a back swing will have a different length to it. The reason for the back swing is to relax your shooting arm before you deliver the dice to the back wall.

A toss without a back swing is call a ballistic toss and you must tense the muscles in your arm to throw the dice this way. When you use aback swing this relaxes the muscles in your entire arm before you start the forward motion. Now the length of the back swing depends on the shooter as I said above. Some shooters have a 1 inch back swing, some a 2 inch, and others may have a back swing up to 12 inches.

I am an advocate developing what works for you and if you take a GTC Class all of the instructors will help you achieve your maximum effectiveness.

Mr Finesse is right on Tex. Without a backswing you will be pushing your shot. One thing to keep in mind about other so called dice controllers and teachers …. if they taught the GTC way, (which is the right way and is based in science and math and physics) they wouldn’t be any different from us. if a car from Ford looked like a car from VW, why have two companies?

Dominator

I’ve tried shooting from SR and attempting to get a backswing from there causes something close to a contortion. But some righties have very good SR shots with little or no backward movement of the hand before the release forward. I understand the ‘theory’ about pushing your shot, but I’ve tried using no backswing and in my opinion, based on the feel of the shot when it is right, you are still letting the dice pull out of your fingers via centrifugal force very much as the dice do with a backswing. Either way, the shot is ‘pulled’ out by the centrifugal force of the pendulum whether the pendulum starts from the halfway mark or further back. I’m not arguing in favor of no backswing, but it does seem possible that the backswing is one more movement where you can get out of alignment. I can also see where a pendulum movement created by a backswing can more efficiently remove the dice from your grip, but either way, its got to be a matter of feel. So, I’m not taking a side on this but am rather trying to start a discussion about something that could be helpful. As a very minor issue, I also think that the severe pendulum action can help draw heat. If you set, hold and toss, you look like everybody else, except that your dice have deliberate ‘action’. Personally, no backswing seems to make my dice land more softly, but maybe I just need to ease off my current backswing into something with a little less momentum in either direction.

You are right about a right hander shooting from SR that the backswing is shorter, but I still have one. Maybe in your SL position your backswing is to long. Try shorting it up, but IMHO a backswing is the way to go for everyone.

Dominator

Tex, Finesse and Dom offer some excellent advice. The rule of thumb that we like to use is one we learned from Finesse many years ago is—start the dice under your nose and take a very short swing back to your ear—this can be from 3 to 3 1/2 inches for us. Nose to ear and then a slow forward swing should do it.

We have found that if you take too long a back swing you will tend to bring the dice inside and one of two things usually happens: you will not throw straight down the table or you will have a curve in your forward swing bringing the dice into the "mixing bowl" in the corner.

As to no back swing, you may push the dice forward with too much or too little force and you will not be consistent doing this. Hurts your control.

Just a few thoughts.

Glad you had good trip.

Rose and Doc

I can second what Dom says since I am right handed and shoot from SR most of the time because I play with other right handed folks who are at SL. I have a short back swing from SR but I still have a back swing. The back swing gives my arm a rhythm to start my forward swing. As Mr. Finesse said the back swing enables you to relax your arm. That is because the pendulum creates energy in the forward swing. Your muscles do not need to work as hard with a back swing to raise your arm and bring it forward than when you start from a dead stop.

I find shooting from SR less natural than shooting from SL because I have to twist my body into an awkward stance. But I do not find it uncomfortable to have a back swing. The back swing is a natural motion from SR for me but it is short because the shoulder restricts my arm from going back too far. I find that to be a good thing because you don’t want a long back swing. I am easily able to get a 3" back swing from SR without feeling uneasy.

If it bothers you to have a back swing from SR your body may not be in the proper position. Have you ever showed an instructor your position from SR to see if you are doing it properly?

Skinny –

I don’t intend to seriously shoot from SR, so its a little early for a look at it.

What you guys are saying seems to be uniform. I still have a backswing, BTW, but from time to time, I have talked to some pretty good shooters out there who do not consider it essential. Of course, they might be even better if they had one! Other than Olympic Curling, there aren’t too many ‘shot’ or ‘throw’ type sports with no backswing. Even a billiards player takes the stick back to get smooth momentun. It would be comical to watch a golfer with no backswing!

Peace.

Alamo

Over the past several months I have started shooting from the deck. With my old shakey hands it just seems to keep things simple and in alignment. After years of shortening my backswing I just eliminated it all together. I gently rest the dice on the surface at an angle, any tension is released at this point, doesn’t really feel like a push, just a smooth follow through to the back wall. Works for me. The key, as Mr. F always says, is in the grip.

I am certainly not of the calibre of the folks who have already written here but I have struggled with back swing vs. no backswing. I have come to the conclusion that the least varibles you have in the toss the better your shot. One varible that becomes an issue with no back swing is arm tension at the point your conscious decision is made to make the throw. If one uses a backswing once the decision is made consciously to start the throw your arm muscles tense up (they have to in order to start back) but they are allowed relax as you move back which can become repeatable just by feel. The arm tension is also minimal if any with the forward move since the pendulum action allows that. Without a backswing the muscles are tensing , never relaxing and the variation in the throw comes from lack of consistent tensing. Does this make any sense. Also there is another variable involved here – the amount of forward thrust from a dead stop. One can be much more consistent with a small backswing since there is a muscle memory to that and more over a natural release of the dice, not forced. However with no backswing how is there any possible consistency when the amount of tension needed to start the forward movement(not a muscle memory type of thing), coupled with adrenaline, or tiredness varies from shot to shot. All of which would utimately effect the initial push outward . Too many variables for me. a slow consistent 2-3 inch backswing gets all of the parts moving in a relaxed motion and synchronization needed to get a smooth flowing action. I am only saying……… Does this make any sense at all. Just trying to put into words what I was feeling when I was doing no backswing. Professor

I think that is exactly correct Professor. I was trying to say something along the same lines in my response as I believe Mr. Finesse was also.

The Professor’s comments are spot-on. I’ve tinkered with no backswing vs standard GTC taught backswing and found a small amount of backswing helps me stay consistent on longer rolls. Good analysis on the muscle tension, it’s very evident from a toss with no backswing. Smooth and steady is the mantra!

I just noticed in practice my backswing was longer than I was taught. Great now I have something else to work on. lol
Tommyc