I guess I go back to Dom saying Trust Your Throw. I told in Tunica last year to go home and work on my betting. I did as I was instructed and have not deviated from that since. I would guess if I bet against my self, my confidence level would not be where it should be. Also i could not bet the don’ts on your turn with the dice either. 😀
See you in Vegas
TommyC

Well a few things …. What I do as I travel in the elevator or heading to the tables, I will visualize my toss. I see posit after point being made. But in your post I see so many things.

First as Tommy said, "Trust your Throw"! if you have been practicing then this should just be muscle memory. I don’t know why you were changing so many things after each 7 out. The 7 will show … if not I would still be shooting somewhere 😉

Remember that just maybe you didn’t have it that night. Changing things so frequently is just not good. Now changing for a reason like on this table I should throw lower is a reason for changing. But in your case, you went high, then low, then medium, the soft, then hard, without a reason for any of this. I think you can see my point. You are not trusting what you have done in practice and before at the casinos

Dominator

I like the little set up that Bman has .
Some times I will throw into pillows but most of time I just start at the table .
Good Rolling. 🙂 🙂

So let’s make my question simpler. What is recommended besides the five count on yourself, visualization, and good muscle memory when you first hit a table? I am looking more for betting strategy while I am adjusting to the table conditions- bounce, cover affects, rail height and honing my skills. My throwing station and receiving station may not be the best but I think that there are a lot of variables to adjust to from casino to casino.

How about a simple pass line bet, with or without odds… Use it as a low cost warmup. I use this when I also end up at a new casino and want to test the table. 😎

Just play dumb and play doey don’t system till you are caught . 🙂 🙂
Just a penny worth . 🙂 🙂
Good Rolling. 🙂 🙂

The doey don’t is a bad way to play. Even though the 12 comes up only once every 36 rolls in a random game, that is enough to make your expected loss with the doey don’t worse than that of the pass line or don’t pass.

Do not play the doey don’t. It makes you stand out from the regular players and does not give you any advantage. In fact you can expect to lose double what you would lose playing the pass or don’t pass by itself.

Often the simple answer is the best answer. Follow the advice of The Griz, pass line for the minimum with or without odds.

You are trying to make this more complicated than it really is. Keep it simple. Make a minimum PL bet and see how your shot is on that day. As Dom says, use the shot you have practiced over and over again. If it looks good, play your normal game wagering accordingly. If not, take a walk and look for more fertile ground.

Remember this is a long journey, treat it as such.

Sorry Richard
I can’t hold myself back any longer.
You have been over for practice on a couple of occasions.
We have 4 of the best instructors who are there. They are willing to help out with any concerns you may have. Take advantage of their expertise.
We’re having another practice march 9th. Your welcome to join us.

Taking a page out of mr. Finesse
PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE AND WHEN YOU THINK YOU GOT IT, PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE

Rose and Doc do try and take a little warm up in the room before we go down in the morning. Doc made a little simple rig that fits nicely in my suitcase when traveling (it takes up little room) and place it on the bed. After the warm up we simply fold it up and set it aside. Even after the warm up, a low PL bet with a few odds and a very low place on the 6 and 8 (even with the hard way set we hit a lot of 6’s and 8’s) we are good to go. No big loss if a quick 7 out does occur. If the shot begins to look good we can increase the odds (no long term loss there since it is an even bet) and/or the 6 an 8 place bet.

We also do a 5 count on each other. We do get a lot of comments when we don’t initially bet on each other with the first roll of the other’s turn with the dice. To over come this, the one not rolling simply says some thing like "I do have money on the pass line, it is in front of my wife." It usually gets a laugh from the crew. We may miss a few hits during the 5 count but so what, it helps to limit our exposure early in a roll until the one rolling gets zoned in. If the other’s roll looks good we may go up a little earlier but this is the exception. Remember we see each other roll in practice all the time and know when a roll looks good.

But what if you have been doing something else for several hours—Rose always has a few shops in the area she likes to go to and the break from the casino is a good one? When we return we may not be heading to the casino where we are staying and a warm up in the room is out of the question, so then we really keep our bets low until we feel good about our throw.

Always remember patience is the key here. Don’t get in a hurry simply because you need "lots of action in a hurry." If you do this you have lost everything you have learned and paid for in class. You have become a chicken feeder. As GTC advantage players we are in this for the long run. Be patient and over time you will be a winner.

And as Dom and many instructors say, "TRUST YOUR THROW." You have the bank roll (or you should or you shouldn’t be in the casino).

Just a few idle comments that we hope will help others.

Alligator Rose and Doc

Well here is the thing, and Skinny voiced my thinking on this ….. I do not believe in warm up money. Here are some of my many reasons:

First why would anyone go to the casino and put hard earned money on the table if they don’t have an edge. I just never could understand this. People saying they went to the casino and had a good time and lost $300. So losing $300 is a good time? When I decided that I wanted a part job earning a part time living from the casinos, I practiced till I knew I had an edge. In that practice time I built up a BR that wouldn’t affect my living.

So here you go. If you think you need to warm up and are afraid to put money on the table …. you don’t know you are playing with an edge and the money you are betting is scared money. Your edge is calculated over many rolls. Who can say that they money roll will happen on the first roll or the third roll. So if you are going to the casino and you are playing with an edge, you are costing yourself wins by not betting the same on the first roll as the third roll. Also if you are not yet playing with an edge but have the need to go tot he casino, well that is another reason to use comebets which have the lowest edge.

So if anyone must go to the casino and play craps without an edge, then do the PL with odds, wait the 5-count on yourself and the go out with one comebet with odds.

This is my problem with writers that talk about regression betting and other things. Playing with an edge is what it is all about and if you have an edge you will cost yourself money by using regression or by waiting till the second or third roll to put out your normal bet.

"Trust your throw" and trust your results from practice

Dominator

I’m back home and back on the practice rig and am going to commit to keeping my edge. I want to thank everyone for the comments and encouragement. Thinking about this out loud has actually been helpfuland has helped me clear my mind on this issue. I will post my next round of sessions probably next week from a work trip to Needles-Laughlin.

I have an actual vacation trip planned to go roll in Las Vegas in March where I can get on a table early and not have to deal with crowds and crazy people and all the other benefits of not trying to work in rolling with business work. And I am going to be tuned up and ready because I am going to practice, practice and practice some more and will definitely be at the get together on the 9th. Appreciate the invite Ballman and will cook something different this time.

Again, thanks to all!
RichardM – AKA "The Breeze".