Soooo TRUE.
I for one do not or not yet posted much about trips . Good or bad . I was just telling G1z. that maybe one of these days both my wife and I will win it seems that one may win but not both at the same time .
I hope some day luck will be on our side .Until then will kept practicing .
I play way to long to remember my rolls or other things that go on at the table just love this game .
There is a long roll going on some were just not with me yet .Maybe the next casino trip you never know .
Good Rolling. 😀 😀

AlamoTx, thanks for putting this into perspective as I think now and again a reality check is good for those of us that follow this page. There is not much to post about a negative trip to the tables. When I hear about how well new people are doing just after taking a class I wonder what was it that missed me. It takes long practice and regular practice to stay on top of your game whether it is golf, rolling dice or other hand-eye-brain-memory activities. I have had probably four killer rolls in two plus years and I remember them all but quite a few in-between rolls that could have paid off much better had I known then what I know now. I don’t know of any other activity I have been involved with that has had the learning curve that dice control-proper betting and all of the other game knowledge things combined as becoming an advantage craps player has. Two and a half years of reading, re-reading and getting more out of it, practice, playing, class, and refresher class and there is still a ways to go to where I think I can be. All in all I enjoy the practice, I enjoy the thrill of adventure at the table and am glad I got on to GTC for the guidance. And it has been great to get to know some of the other GTC folks that post-some really great people. Good luck to all and may the force be with you.

Alamo: I needed to read that right now. I feel the same way. Thanks for the post. DoughBoy

As they say… Been there, done that!
Alamo, we’ve rolled on the down side and upside, so I feel for ya pard!
Finisher, think G1Z was a typo for Griz, cuz ur right…
Only once have Lady Griz and I been both on the HOT side,
And that was when we were both random rollers!
Probably why if I roll with anyone else, they be GTC!
Great lesson for all, especially the newer members.
Listen up, because its all about the long-haul in this game.
Just had a brain flash when I first met Bman and started this crazy
GTC journey… 2009… Damn… Colts lost the Super Bowl and
I discovered dice control!
STILL on that road to discovery! Like its been said, it IS the journey
NOT the destination!
I have witnessed various GTC instructors that had the same issues at the table, but came back another day to roll like perfection.
There is no Golden Goose here, merely ways to help weave magic when the Toss, Training and Luck join hand in hand!
Great post Tex! Lets rock 2014!
The Griz

On top of everything posted here consider this I personally win more with certain people around than I do with others.

I believe that playing partners need to be compatible right down to the types of food they like, because a great meal can sure make a losing session easily forgotten, betting and playing the same makes it easy to discuss strategy for the trip ie if you come bet and your partner sets for the seven on the come out he may not be the one for you to play with , because nothing hurts more than having your come bets come down on a come out seven only to have those numbers be the ones tossed right out of the gate especially thinking about the fact that he set for the seven.

Table conditions liked need to be the same by both, do not need to worry about hearing well we played on conditions you like I need to play some where else so my shoot looks good.

No matter what happens you will never win all the time that is a fact but knowing your partner and being able to tell when he is on can sure help a lot.

Great post Alamo

Well, here goes. I don’t put that much stock in luck. It does however play a part. I think that when you are having a lousy session it is a case of poor throwing. Something is off caused by YOU. Maybe split dice, not square dice, not soft enough toss or too hard. How about your body not square? Each of us has a rhythm and it is subtly different in each of us, so you may be out of rhythm. When everything comes together as near perfection as we can make it the result might be a "Great" roll and that is how we perceive it. This near perfection state cannot be maintained always so therefore there are ups and downs in our journey.

As you all know you can be tossing great and go to hell or tossing lousy and all of a sudden it turns terrific. Variance. All of us here strive for that perfection or we wouldn’t be here in the first place. There are unfortunate (bad luck) things like CFers dropping money into our throw or tossing chips at the wrong place or time or just having a hand in line with your toss. How about a stickman that is so bored he isn’t paying attention and waving the stick and you hit it with your hand or the dice. A snarl may work but if you don’t have a bet down for the dealers putting one for them may change that.

Colorado casinos are cramped due to the law here and virtually all craps tables have high traffic behind the players. People run into you, other non table game people and casino personnel. These can be considered bad luck. So shit happens. It is difficult to try getting in a zone and being cognizant of others passing by at the same time. This is unfortunate but if you know how to overcome this please let me know how.

Lastly, we don’t win all the time but who wants to hear about all the unsuccessful trips? If this is a reminder to the new people then fine but I still like to hear of your wins. Just practice isn’t enough but "perfect" practice will go a long way to meeting your goals.

Good rolling everyone!

OneMoonCircles

A whole lot of things have to line up for a great roll to occur, and anyone who believes luck is not involved is, in my opinion, sorely mistaken. The minute the dice lose contact with your fingers, they are no longer ‘controlled’. When I miss a throw, I know it. On a lucky roll, that random throw does not make a 7. Instead, it makes another number, and the roll stays alive for one more throw. Anyone who says they release the dice perfectly everytime is dreadfully delusional. As soon as the best controlled shot encounters the table, luck begins to play a roll, from table to pyramid to final resting spot. I am not superstitious, but luck exists. True, the harder you work, the luckier you get to paraphrase a great UT football coach. But, did Alabama really lose to Auburn because Auburn’s skill made the difference? Maybe. What if the Alabama field goal kicker gets just a little more leg into the kick…or the guy trying to block it just barely misses making contact? What about the interception in the end zone in the Seattle-San Francisco game? Ball gets barely tipped and instead of continuing into the hands of the receiver, it takes a slightly different tack and gets intercepted. I hate to tell you, but you DON"T control the dice completely. I know when I’m throwing well and when I’m not. Frustration is when you’ve got your good stuff, and they still hit you. Sports is a game of inches and dice is no different. IN fact, it may be more demanding and have less tolerance for error than other games. Diceman and I made our share of mistakes, but we had bad luck this trip in spite of some pretty good looking shots. Period. When you get to roll 10 or so, and the groove is on and a nicely thrown pair of dice hit a pyramid just the wrong way and you get a 7, that could well be the difference between sevening out and going on to a 30+ hand. Luck doesn’t explain it all, of course, but you have to reach a nice mix of knowing when to blame your game and when to blame other things. Usually, it’s a combination, unless you just suck. And, if you suck, you shouldn’t be throwing.

Sorry to those of you who don’t want to hear about unsuccessful trips. You can continue to cruise along in la la land claiming to win every time you play and listening only to the good news, but life is an up and down affair, and so is dice control. Anyway, I’ll post when I feel it might be helpful. The title of the post can tell you right away whether to read it or not. Frankly, I don’t think that analyzing a loss is negative. If a good football team gets blown out on Sunday, the coach isn’t going to say "I know you guys don’t want to hear about the loss we just had, so we’ll only talk about the good games we have. OK, let’s all go practice". Like I said, some of you seem to win all the time and, if I should be winning all the time, I really need to work harder and smarter. I certainly admire your skill.

Alamo

As I read this an old saying came to mind, "The harder I work the luckier I get."

May the dice be with you

T-Burg

Me thinks J. Paul Getty coined that particular phrase.

2013 was a very good year for me, in "our" game. Every trip WAS a great trip. Did not WIN every trip, but I did not blow my 401g away when I lost. When I was winning, I have learned how to increase that flow. Discipline has been my luck in all of the competitive sports (this is a sport) during my life. I am 70. Dad just turned 94.

Agree with Bman. Must be a fit, to be at table with someone. When Bman and I played, he cut me no slack, but guarantee he will do to work with. I play alone, and usually when the "wannabes" show and start talking…I’m gone.

Last trip a dealer made the comment to me.."darn David, I think you set the record this time for point – 7 out, yuk..yuk..yuk." Walked a great deal that trip, but it was a great trip, and I did finish the book I was reading.

Shoot with passion…
DavidM

Thank you David I enjoyed your playing, and I believe we even enjoyed the food

The five horseman all liked gourmet food and nice shows

dice pilot and his crew all go the same way

section eight and raf are glued at the ;hip for the trip and practice

Doc is lost without out rose at the tables

When the contractor and I play our win to loss ratio on trips is huge as a matter of fact ad frenchie into the mix and the three of us are batting 1000% oh Waite we only played once lmao.

Now is it luck that we all have met only god knows that answer but I no for fact that I have asked the dice to get lucky at least 68 times so give me all the luck in the world.

To be great is great but to be great and lucky there is nothing better!

Alamo,

No one has said they win all the time. Well maybe a couple of the jerks here have but we all know they are full of it. I don’t win all the time either but when I lose I don’t say much because I don’t have anything to offer to help others by sharing the information about the loss. When you had a 10 going and then 7’nd out it may have looked like a great toss but something was wrong and not just bad luck. If you have to have something to blame other than yourself then say it was bad luck. Everyone of us has had a roll (actually many rolls) that looked perfect but came out as a 7, and those will continue to plague us, aggravate us, but they will happen anyway and due to a flaw in that particular toss.

OMC

When I post about a trip, I write about the good, the bad, and the ugly. I believe it is good for new students and readers to know that this is a journey, and that we cannot expect to win every time. Practice will improve our skill, but as in any athletic endeavor, no one will ever win 100% of the time. If your grip isn’t exactly perfect, or if the dice don’t hit the pyramids in a perfect way, then one does have to ask for luck for a good outcome.

One must also be able to zone in, and not let peripheral noise have an adverse effect. When Sandtrap had his 90 roll, 4 of us were on an almost empty table in the evening, and there were absolutely no distractions, with dealers who never delayed the game. The conditions were perfect for someone whose technique was particularly good during that session.

Goddess

Some days are good … some days are bad

With my plan, strategy, selecting a "great/playable" table, and the amount of practice I do, I try to put myself in a position where the good days out-number the bad.

I played high-school baseball and then 10+ years of slow-pitch softball — I had my share of 0 for 5 collars……and quite a few 5 for 5 days. Among those days there were times that I hit the "crap" (pardon the pun) out the ball and it was caught for an out….. and there were times that I may have gotten a "cheap" infield hit or bloop single.

At the end of the season, my goal was to be successful ….that’s how I try to be at craps

Well, all I can say is that I am happy to have started a lively discussion. I believe in luck and some people don’t. The post by Goddess mentioned a great atmosphere for a long roll. Was it luck that they found that particular table? Maybe. Maybe not. And to clarify, I’m not looking for something else to blame, but all athletes know when they gave the game their best effort, and Diceman and I both represented ourselves well. Just didn’t happen. You really get the right to beat up on yourself when you know you can do better and you’re not doing it.

There is a great book called the "Celestine Prophecy" that some of you may have read. I tend to agree with its author that there are no coinicidences, but I also think it’s a lot more complicated than that. Craps, like golf, at the skilled level, is a game to be played not mastered.

Peace to all of you and Keep On Rollin’.

Alamo

Tiger Woods does NOT qualify for every tournament he plays in

Don’t be too hard on yourself. Trust in your shot and ALWAYS believe in yourself.

Sometimes it’s just not your day….if it’s not working, color up….go have a drink/eat….watch sports; come back few hours later and try again

I just hate those days because I don’t get to casinos that have real craps vary often .That is another reason I play way too long when I do go to a casino .
I have changed my old ways some since being with GTC . I now save a lot by not betting on ALL players . I need to limit my play more this I know but hard to do . I play after break fest till it is time for dinner with just bath room breaks . We only eat 2 meals when in casinos .I think I will try taking a nap next trip .
I am a low roller so can last for awhile if the dice are rolling a little my way at all .
Most of my sessions are losses . I think that some could have been winners if only I would have stopped sooner .This is a journey for sure .
Good Rolling. 😀 😀

DavidM shooting craps is like any physical activity you never participated in, know when the home run (mega roll) will show up is the challenge. In your favor you have the right frame of mind about this game and playing with BMan, you do learn what it takes to be a winner. TheUsualSuspect, Semper Fi carry on

The last trip that Rose and I took in Vegas we lost. Between us we had on 28, one low 20 and maybe 5 in the teens. But over a 4 day trip way too many short rolls not making the five count. Since only one of us was on the table for these less than 5 count rolls we lost very little–perhaps 3 pictures of Ben. With comped rooms and some free meals we were satisfied if not happy. As David M said the 401G did not take a big hit at all. We head to another venue next month. Learn, memorize and use the GTC principles and you will be a winner. And never forget take a lesson whether it be a refresher course, video, tune up, or advanced class–do it. Even the best pros have their game looked at all the time.

Hope to see many of you in AC.

If you have a problem with someone posting about their wins then maybe you should be more direct in your conversations. I play for the excitement of the game. I personally have had a few trips where I hit all the numbers more then once. Unlike some, I am very proud of my accomplishments. I put forth a great deal of effort in my toss. I personally don’t bully others due to my inability to succeed. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO WIN EVERYTIME. How many years have you been playing?

Clem Caserta a.k.a. Jimmy whispers is creating a new domain in Tottenville High School and hopefully all schools to slow down bullying.

Attached files

The Pic reminded me of old High School on South side of Chicago .
Lindblum Tech.
Good Rolling. 😀 😀

Clem played in A Bronx Tale, Casino, and The Untouchables. Good hearted guy. Finisher, he’s from Staten Island,NY.

Eagle Eye; I always will admire your enthusiasm for the game. Keep on rolling. DoughBoy

Eagle Eye…I’m not sure if you meant your post to be directed to me, but it sounds like it was. I don’t recall calling you out…but, I guess if the shoe fits….

So there’s no confusion, I am proud of my game. I just wanted to share some of the not so good stuff ( I had a pretty good trip to Vegas before, and that one got shared ). I’m just into reality, and I think new people need to know not to get discouraged. We all have setbacks in our game.

But, if you do win all the time, I’m happy for you. I’ve been playing this game since 1982 and influencing the dice since whenever it was I took my first course in Tunica. It is definitely a game to be played, not mastered.

Peace bro.

Alamo

AlamoTx, I have no hard feelings towards you. I know I post a lot about wins but the losses are not that exciting to me. We all have enough good sense to know one doesn’t win all the time. I understand you want others to know the reality of the game. Casino’s make billions of dollars each year. So, I love it when someone wins. I really don’t know what else to write about or post to the sight. I am still very new to this advantage play and dice influence thing. It’s definitely a good idea to let others know the reality of the game. After all, it is a game of chance. I hope your craps game improves! 😉

Thanks DoughBoy. I’m sending luck your way. Hope you win big at one of the casinos.

This game is hard on your feelings. ChanceC an I made a short to our local casino Monday afternoon.
Our dice were looking good after several hours of practice this weekend, Especially his dice, they have been glued together for about a month , he practices nearly every day, I was real pumped about us going. He started out on fire with a 10 and several repeat numbers. The rest of the afternoon was not good, We could not get anything going. Can’t wait until the GTC instructors/mentors help him further his development in April. Hope to meet up with you soon Alamo. Great post, and so true.
TommyC

NickAtNight here, As I have stated I do not post to much–shame on me, but this post did interest me.

Lets say in a trip you play 10 to 15 sessions. Meaning that a session is a time at the table and you leave till the next challange. And, lets say of those 10 sessions you win 6 sessions. Notice i do not dwell on "I lost 4 sessions"

We all know we have loosing sessions. I want to hear about the success, the short rolls that made some bucks or the long rolls that did not make lotsa bucks because maybe that betting stratagy was in place. Not listing the loosers does not deny we loose at times, but the winners—-now that’s what we want to hear. The winners because we folowed the GTC way in dice control or in its understanding of betting.

Read Marylins post. You can’t get a truer representation of time at the table.
She lists the good, the bad, and the ugly…Thats why Im scared sometimes when we are together. She might list my horsecrap rolls. 😀

Anyway, I do agree with the original posts that we read more about the great rolls but im ok with that. Keep those rolls going, and "good fortune to all of you at the Casino’s"

See some of you in AC or Vegas,Safe travels to you all

Thanks for your comments, it helps keep it all in perspective.

Nick; I know you don’t post much but I always remember what you have to say in class. I keep practicing. See you in Vegas. DoughBoy

We still have a Post of the Month? If so, I nominate Alamo’s post. Brought out a good subject that got both old and new timers chiming in on. Good discussion.

The Griz is right. This is a very good post by Alamo. I took his original post to mean that some of the other posts that talk of constant wins EVEN WITH BAD STRATEGY AND BETTING HIGH HOUSE EDGE BETS can lead the newbie(and maybe an oldie like me) dice controller into a false sense of the true rigors of learning proper dice technique and betting technique and lead them to disaster. To this point I am in total agreement with him. I think his approach is realistic and honest.
That being said, Nick at Night is also correct that it is more interesting to read of wins. I take it that he means wins using proper technique and betting strategies. And I just love it that he worries about the Goddess’s totally honest and to the point reports. I feel the same way, since I too have been known to stray from walking the line every so often. LOL

The last one was May so I agree .
Good Rolling. 😀 😀

I am truly honored by some of your comments about the ‘post of the month’, but I don’t post with anything like that in mind. My original post on this subject was just a trip report, really. I just think you’ve got to know what the worst case scenario looks like anytime you are undertaking a competitive venture. Could you imagine the Navy Seals heading out on a mission expecting that only their good technique was needed in order to win. During the killing of the human cockroach Bin Laden, a helicopter crashed, even though everybody was executing their role to perfection. Not part of a good trip report, but they were able to handle the adversity and still accomplish the mission. Our craps games with the casinos are not anywhere near that level of seriousness, but my point is that we’ve all got to know that the best executed game plan can go wrong. You don’t quit or get discouraged. You just know you’re going to have those lousy outings.

Might I suggest a homework assignment on the role luck plays in competitive games? As you watch the Super Bowl, watch for the appearance and disappearance of Lady Luck during the game. The team with the best game and the best skills might win, but they might not either. Both of these teams will be highly trained and will execute their throws, blocks, patterns and whatever else at the highest athletic level. When the game is over, I’d love to hear any comments you might have about Lady Luck. Somebody might slip for example, instead of hitting a stack of chips, to make a comparison. Something like slippery turf could end up causing a game winning interception.

The point of my post is that bad luck can, almost by itself, cause a bad trip. You don’t have to blame yourself or doubt your game. You might need to work, which we will all need to do from now on. There is no ‘winning’ plateau you reach here. None of us are such great shooters that we can overcome the Dice Gods when they are not favoring us. I saw it this morning in practice. I was come betting and the point was 8. I decided to make a come bet rather than placing the 6 to begin working a 6 – 8 game. The very next roll of the dice was a 4. Then the 6 hit. Had the 6 been placed, 1/2 of my risk would have been returned by that first hit. I sevened out about a dozen throws later without repeating the 6 or the 8. Are you really going to tell me that my skill was not good enough? I repeated the 9 three times during that period, but it wasn’t the second number. 4 was the second number, and it never showed.

Peace my brothers and sisters. Let’s do our Super Bowl homework and revisit this topic. I know I’m going to.

Alamo

Alamo; You have my vote for POM as well. Thanks for all of your reflections on this topic. DoughBoy

I learn from posts on wins and losses.
Some posts are also entertaining.
So bring them all on,
winning and losing posts,
or entertaining ones.

Dom and I have always said every long roll has 1 or 2 lucky shots. Our controlled shot tends to bring out the 7 if it is off just a slight amount. We always know when our release if off slightly our shot is long or short. That is when you can here me say get up, get up or say get lucky.

We do need that luck. 😀

AlamoTx Is it bad luck or good luck in super bowel this year . Boy was I surprised in the first min. The rest went all south .
Good Rolling . 😀 😀

Luck??? I don’t think Peyton had a horseshoe in his back pocket yesterday. A Broncos team that preformed consistenly over the past 5 months and gets kicked in the junk at the biggest game of the year. Luck/Consistent??? Peyton I certainly feel your pain. Can we all relate?? Last month in Vegas it was 3 sessions in a row that put money in my pockets. Hey I got this down, next morning same table seems like my only friend was the ugly 7 and luck stayed in my room. We shake our heads in frustration, I’ve got to keep practicing to get this down, just like Peyton, I’ll be back, but I hope luck comes with me.. 😎

From my perspective, I’ve played alot of sports in my life (baseball, basketball, QB on my college flag football team, pitched 8 games a week of Slow-pitch softball when I got in my mid to late 20’s) & I practiced and practiced like crazy for all of those activities. And, I had my share of great days AND bad days — however, my ultimate goal was to be good enough whereby the great days outnumbered the bad ones.

And craps is like that for me — my sports background has given me the unique ability to tune things out, focus, concentrate, and TRUST in my ability to make it happen. Back in November in Atlantic City, I was having real a bad day (4 straight point 7-outs) and almost shut it down for the day, just totally annoyed and disgusted with myself….but, I re-channeled my energy and focus, and the next shot, I ended up hitting a 62-roll (4-point fire bet) …. basically, I just keep shooting until things get straightened out. When I played basketball, I shot lots and lots of jump-shots (i’m only 5"10") and my motto was if I’m not shooting well, just keep shooting and I’ll get hot — I’ll shoot my way out of it (Ray Allen has that mentality).

I believe that you have to be confident, trust your shot, trust your practice, and just keep pushing onwards.

Super Bowl perspective — not too many QBs in the NFL could have beaten Seattle last night

Maybe Drew Brees in the Superdome (at home) ….or Aaron Rodgers in the Packers Championship year back when they beat the Steelers

Or ELI !!!
😉

I’ve been reluctant to even comment on the Super Bowl. But, I finally realized where Lady Luck was during that game. This is just an opinion, but in my opinion Seattle was lucky because for whatever reason they faced a Denver team that was not ready to play. From the Denver perspective, by way of analogy, the Broncos were the GTC guy who has taken the class but hasn’t practiced much and shouldn’t even be in the casino. Denver had the innate talent but they had no business being on the field (in the casino) in whatever botched state of preparation they were in. Or, Seattle was just that much better. Defenses do win big games so they say.

Also, I think that first botched snap was the equivalent of a good craps shooter hitting a stack of chips and sevening out right after putting up the 6 and 8 for $150 each. I just don’t think Denver was ever able to get the monkey off their back after that. Who knows what the game would have been like had Manning been able to complete a quick pass or bust a running play out of the gate…rather than have his center hike the ball into the end zone!

So, maybe we need another analogy for the luck thing. This game just didn’t have luck as a factor. Denver was unlucky in the sense of being in the wrong place at the right time…like a guy who gets mugged in the subway.

Well, back to working on my throw. BTW, I’ve been experimenting with some different sets ( I’ve always ‘trained’ with the HW set). Oddly, the V3 is running away with the SRR contest! Now, I’m really confused.

Peace. And…whatever you do, ‘keep on rollin’.

Alamo

When things go that BAD so fast we can go up to room and re -think things or just wait till next day for better out come .Or pass the dice .
They have to play threw it period .We have other things that we can do.
Good Rolling. 😀 😀

I like the 3-V on bouncy tables (IF I play them)

99% of time I use HW set

I don’t attribute too much luck to a score of 46-8 — Seattle is AWESOME …. they were able to pressure Peyton with only the front 4….& cut-off all the underneath routes and snuffed out Denver’s short passing game basically KNOWING that Peyton’s arm strength, especially in cold weather is not too good. How many 20-yard completions did Peyton have???

Also, Denver’s WRs had the look of NOT wanting to be there because Seattle just kept hitting them when they did catch a pass.

And, when Seattle got that 15-0 lead, Denver gave up on the running game and that played perfectly into Seattle’s game plan

Seattle was a HORRIBLE match-up for Denver

After typing all this, I feel like I’m on a football blog

How about 16 foot tables ???
How many throws were more then 20 yds. I don’t think there were many . It looked like he thought that the receivers could make a first down after each catch when they were not near it . The defense would not let that happen . They needed to catch the ball passed the first down .
I like craps better but I like watching a good game of foot ball . Was disappointed with this one .
Good Rolling. 😀 😀

How about 16 foot tables ???
How many throws were more then 20 yds. I don’t think there were many . It looked like he thought that the receivers could make a first down after each catch when they were not near it . The defense would not let that happen . They needed to catch the ball passed the first down .
I like craps better but I like watching a good game of foot ball . Was disappointed with this one .
Good Rolling. 😀 😀