Please do not worry about the height of your toss. if you have the proper grip and the correct pressure on the dice the height of the toss is controlled by gravity. lastly with a correct 45 degree launch angle again the height is controlled by gravity’

Gene you are worrying about advanced techniques and you have never taken a class nor have you ever had an instructor look at your toss, do not put the cart before of the horse.

Please worry about your grip, dice sets and building a bank roll.

"Mr Finesse" wrote: Please do not worry about the height of your toss. if you have the proper grip and the correct pressure on the dice the height of the toss is controlled by gravity. lastly with a correct 45 degree launch angle again the height is controlled by gravity’

Gene you are worrying about advanced techniques and you have never taken a class nor have you ever had an instructor look at your toss, do not put the cart before of the horse.

Please worry about your grip, dice sets and building a bank roll.

yes thanks
Been working on grip several months now
And pressure usually have sixes straight across front and check fingers even across top
thumb in middle half way down that a little tricky part thumb on slight angle because fingers on front but try for middle w even
find wrist is important part of throw makin sure very loose do get the dice traveling fairly close together sometimes every so often
use perfect glued dice bar a bit get them looki eveb as much as possible then go to reg dice 10-15 min warmup then set up w hardways and record some throws have over 3000 recorded although only recently started keeping track how #s were which dice ended up for # like last 1000
throws
keep track of everything 7s /7s comeout /craps #s /short throws both dice not hitn back wall which is at 6.5 %
6s & 8s are pretty much even
10s at 2% more than 4s
5s at 3% more than 9
Hardways almost even H10 slightly ahead others
3s well ahead other crap #s
30% of 7s r on comeout even through using hardway set
hit hardways 11.7 % throws
avg roll at 8.3
srr at 5.876

"GeneP" wrote:
hit hardways 11.7 % throws
avg roll at 8.3
srr at 5.876

Gene,

I don’t want to burst your bubble but those numbers are the same as those of a random roller. In fact, they are a tad worse than random but within the margin of error to be considered random.

A random roller could expect the following:

hit hardways 11.1111 % throws
avg roll at 8.5255
srr at 6.0000

Also, if you are using the hardway set, any time you throw a seven it is considered a poor throw. It does not matter if it is on the come out roll or not. The purpose of the hardway set is to avoid the seven. The dice don’t know you when you are on a come out roll.

"Skinny" wrote: [quote="GeneP"]
hit hardways 11.7 % throws
avg roll at 8.3
srr at 5.876

Gene,

I don’t want to burst your bubble but those numbers are the same as those of a random roller. In fact, they are a tad worse than random but within the margin of error to be considered random.

A random roller could expect the following:

hit hardways 11.1111 % throws
avg roll at 8.5255
srr at 6.0000

Also, if you are using the hardway set, any time you throw a seven it is considered a poor throw. It does not matter if it is on the come out roll or not. The purpose of the hardway set is to avoid the seven. The dice don’t know you when you are on a come out roll.

ok so practice not doing any good since worse than random

"GeneP" wrote: srr at 5.876… ok so practice not doing any good since worse than random

Let me chime in here…

Gene,

Two of the "best of the best" of GTC instructors have given you some incredible advice and insight:

Mr. Finesse suggested that you focus on your grip, build your 401G and sign up for the GTC Primer class.

Skinny, who has forgotten more about the math of craps than most people know, did some number crunching and provided you with data on your current advantage play skill and "edge" as it relates to random.

I’ll add some more insight: you shouldn’t worry about getting your thumb "straight" on the dice. Allow your thumb to contact the dice naturally. If your front fingers are aligned properly, your thumb will not appear "straight" on the dice unless you are forcing and contorting your grip.

Such is the shape of the human hand…You need to build into muscle memory a grip that is not only correct, but also repeatable. Especially when under the pressure of live play and with your money at risk.

I think most, if not all, of the GTC Instructors will agree with me that far too much time is spent in class trying to help students "unlearn" and correct the flaws they have built into their grip and swing mechanics from trying to do it on their own prior to taking GTC’s introductory Primer class.

This "thing of ours" isn’t easy, Gene.

Do yourself a favor – Heed the advice and insight of Mr. Finesse and Skinny. Keep reading and studying… Continue to use a gripper and work on your grip if you wish. At this point your goal should simply be to not build bad habits into your throw…

Enroll in a GTC Primer class and receive some professional instruction as soon as you can.

Hang in there, Gene… Don’t get too discouraged… We’ve all been there…!

😎 😎 😎

Gene

You sound like me 4 years ago. I had the books and vidoes and i did practice alot,
and it seemed i had some ok rolls. I thought this stuff is easy. But if you practice
alot before you take any classess, sooner or later you get some bad habits and they
begin to cause problems in your results.

But without the classes and help GTC can give you , you dont know what corrections
to make and you get worse and soon your bad habits are very very hard to break
even with help.

If a person wants to just play craps, play, but if you want dice control to work for you
with the GTC roll, get help from the guys that have been through it all.

I know one thing for sure… if you try to do it alone, you will spend much more than the
price of the class, thinking you can control the dice than you will actually learning how
to do it.

PLayers that go to a casino thinking they can control the dice when they cant are just
giving money to the casino….here take it, it is a gift.

gman

Timmer,

Your comments along with Mr. Finesse and Skinny’s to GeneP were right on the money. It is nice to have someone clearly explain the highlights of the basics needed for as you say, "this thing of ours". I am really impressed with the help you guys extend to the newbie without jamming down their throat, save your money and take a class. Taking a class is necessary for the long run, but one has to buy into wanting to do this to truly appreciate the time, skill and practice needed to have the class be beneficial for them.

You guys do GTC a great service.

Catch you later!

GeneP I hope that you are using the 3 finger grip . That is what you will be using in class .The best thing to do is just practice it with gripper until you take the class .You are better off going to casino after the class .
Good Rolling.