7X7

I could not disagree with you more. I say this apologetically and in a friendly way, not in a belittling way.

It is precisely in practice that all the good runs are supposed to happen. The home practice table is a table that a thrower should be used to.

In no way should the HW set be producing more 7’s then normal especially the 6-1. If there are a lot of 5-2, 4-3 combos then ABSOLUTELY something is way off. I will not guess at it from 3,000 miles away, but for a practiced thrower to have a SRR of 6 is unacceptable. At that point the shooter should not be shooting because they are playing a negative game.

I suspect that you may not be practicing enough or the correct way or that you have a physical problem that may not allow you to throw the correct shot. But you probably know all of this and how to fix the problem. When Tiger Woods has a problem in his shot, he stays late into the night and hits practice balls until his fingers bleed.

All of us have to put the homework in. No one looses weight by just reading a diet book.

well i dont have any answer for this, i experienced the same thing,
and incredible number of 4/3 3/4, to the point i quit using the
hardway set.

After my refresher , i played that sunday night in vegas and i dont
rebember exactly, but i think i had 24 3/4 4/3 out of 42 rolls.

I thought well if you throw the dice 8-9 feet and use a hardway set, if one
dice rotates 1/4 turn forward and the other 1/4 turn back you have it. It
would appear to be easy to get a 7. I thought it is hard to do a perfect roll,
but a roll pretty close gets me a 7.

I have been back from my tune up for two weeks now and i have played 3 times
including tonight. I cant explain it but my srr if almost 10 since i got back. I am sure
it will fall back some, but the hardway set has been by far the best set since i have been
back.Tonight i had 6 hands and srr was 10.3

So if some one can explain all that they are smarter than i am.

gman

Little things matter with this "thing" of ours.

My guess is that a defect (or defects) have crept into some part of your throw.

The most common culprit is the grip being off, but it could be swing mechanics, body alignment, several of these things, or something else.

From what you’ve written there is a degree of consistency – consistent sevens, unfortunately…

You need to resolve this before you put your bankroll at risk in the casino. Just don’t keep doing the same thing and expect different results. – Ain’t gonna happen.

I’ll be curious to learn the results when the random toss experiment reaches a valid sample size. I’m guessing the final random toss outcome results will be just that – statistically and predictably
random…

Keep us posted on your progress, Seven…

😎 😎 😎

Pull out your Video file and I bet you will find that one of the issues has crept back into your toss.

NFF

Thanks, NFF.

Yes, a month ago I suspected that. My backswing needed correction.
I set up my video and caught that. Then made sure I visually observed
the backswing and launch.

Then I set up the camera to catch what was happening on the landing
and you would like to see the ‘scatter’, the maddening reaction of the
dice after they hit the table.

So I’m now into experimenting:

(a) Recording the random throw to prove that even though sometimes the
sevens are scarce (on one recent occasion the seven showed at the 35th
throw after I got frustrated with the GTC throw showing the seven too often),
the SRR will be statistically 6.

(b) Changing the landing surface for the GTC throw,to see the difference in SRR statistics.
So far, with the idea of just making sure the dice are square and together
and having confidence that that was all I needed, I did try that in a casino
last week and had two short rolls (about four throws each) and a long one (about 25 minutes)
which almost tripled my buy-in.
That could be variance. I also saw a randy do over 45 minutes a month previously.
I’l look for more consistency.
I’ll report my findings here on this board as they happen, if I sense there is interest.

Before I joined GCT I had numerous long turns with the dice as I’m sure we all did and they were 100 % random. Since I joined GTC and attended the primer I have tried to learn, practice and play the GTC way. It makes too much sense, the proper betting, the proper grip, the exact everything. I would not attempt or have any reason to disagree with anything I have learned. If I can’t achieve the results I’m looking for and desire that’s my fault. I did not practice my grip enough, or my mind was not right when I practiced etc. I know I can do this , will I will ever achieve the consistency I desire, I don’t know. But I do know I will never second guess what I have learned since joining GTC, it has made me a better gambler and I’m closer to becoming an advantage player than I have ever been before.
TommyC

OK,

What I am going to say will not help you fix the problem per se. That is for the instructors to advise you.

I know personally that when my shot goes poorly that I start to feel a little stress and I am sure the blood pressure goes up a little—even at home. Then without knowing it I tighten my grip. Then my shot looks worse. Vicious circle!

Since you have lemons—-yes, make lemonade! In your home casino sessions try Don’t Pass and Don’t Come betting to make yourself some money. Do this until the tide turns even if it is several weeks or a month. Hopefully this will lessen the stress you are feeling a little and may lead you back to less 7’s over a little time.

I have certainly gone through this WAY too many on axis 7’s problem and I am sure most everyone has been there at one time or another. Our dice influencing and edge is a fluid thing unfortunately but that is just the way it is and will always be. I think GMan is right. The closer we get to a very good toss and consistency is when we actually toss more 7’s for a little while. Keep going and don’t feel like the Lone Ranger in this.

I agree 100 percent with Tommy’s comments. It is a lot of hard work. I have run into my batch of sevens often enough. It too shall pass. Keep on working it. DoughBoy

Go to Vegas for a tune up, and camaraderie of the gtc instructors and the peace of mind you will get with the confidence that comes from knowing that your shot is correct will be so worth it.

Remember that the next class is 6 months away that is a long time to go.

Three years since your last class is a long time to go with out any help, I have heard the instructors say on many occasions that as well as a positive influence on the dice we can also make a negative one two.

Best of luck

The answer to your problem is obvious. Your handle is SevenTimesSeven, your last post was your 77th post and you took your first class in 07′. Change your handle to SixTimesEight, write 9 more posts to get to 86 posts and go to a meet and greet at 6 PM and stay until 8PM.

On a serious note, I am very concerned about what you are experiencing. I have read this post several times, trying to figure out how to help you. I get the sense of frustration and desperation in what you are experiencing.

What is the objective in the random throw? You know what the results will be statistically. I have read your previous posts so I know you understand the math and do not dispute it. So why bother throwing them randomly?

But then you are trying out different surfaces? What is that going to accomplish that will help your throw? You need to get back to basics to see if your throw is correct. If you want to try a different surface, throw the dice into sand so that they stick when they land. Then you can see if they are landing flat, on-axis with the same numbers on top. That will tell you if the dice are coming off your hand properly and rotating together.

Go back to the grip. Check to see that your thumb and middle finger have equal pressure on both die. Are your fingers straight across? Is your grip light enough so that they are almost falling out our your hand?

When the dice come off your fingers, is your hand square to the target? Are your fingers closed so the dice roll off your fingers?

You said you videotaped your swing to be sure it is straight back and forward. What about the energy you are putting into the toss? Are the dice landing a few inches from the back wall, gently kissing the diamonds on the way down and settling a few inches together from the back wall?

This is only a few of the things I would be looking at to see what is wrong with your toss. But I think you need much more help than this if I am reading you correctly. The hardways set and the GTC throw does not have a way of producing "easy sevens". A poor grip and/or toss has a way of producing "easy sevens". Yes, if you have outstanding axis control, double pitches will produce more sevens than random with the hardways set. But from what I am reading, that is not what you are doing.

I think bman is correct. You need to get someone to help you. I do not believe the path you are on is going to do you any good. I think you have lost your confidence and are confused about what to do. I think it is going to take an experienced person to see what you are doing and work with you to help you make changes.

Skinny,

Yes, I do know there is no need to do a random throw for the statistics.
I only need to look at my early-years’ data.

My posts are also meant to have other members come out to offer their
experiences and advice. We seem to need more postings to liven up the
Craps board, before it goes to sleep.
From the various answers and suggestions offered I always look forward to
gleaning some good ideas to explore and improve my throw.
And Skinny, you did come through again. Thank you for that.
And thanks to the others for their inputs.

Yes, I was in a Mississippi casino and continued my idea of just doing
a good-looking throw, square, together, soft and not worrying about
the outcome. Threw for two hands, one more than doubling my buy-in and
the second about even.
Could be variance again. Will continue the ‘attitude’ and we’ll see.

Hmm Well in my practice sessions I make bets for the dealers like I do in the casino. It has come to my attention that at times they make more money then I do if it is a session with a couple short rolls .
I bet just 1.00 for them on the pass line no hard way bets and add odds to their bet only when I hit a number that I have place bet on . I like doing it this way to get them into the game more .
At times it is hard to get others to post and some take it in the wrong way.
Good Rolling. 😀 😀