The key is not the dice set. The key is a toss that is repeatable, with both dice reacting the same way each toss.

NFF

"NofieldFive" wrote: The key is not the dice set. The key is a toss that is repeatable, with both dice reacting the same way each toss.

NFF

I was waiting for that answer. 🙂 Thanks for not letting me down.

If the set doesn’t matter, then why are there many specific sets as part of dice control?
I am not dissagreeing I absolutley agree that the toss and repetitiveness is everything that makes total sense. But in every book I have read they reference specific dice sets for specific outcomes.

For example, with the all sevens set you have to admit the 7 comes up way more feequintly with a proper toss then with say the HW set. From the results of all my documented practice throws I feel the set plays a big part of the outcome. Which is truly the point of my question, is it in my head? I can throw over 40 throws with 2V set before throwing one 7, but with a 3V set I can throw as many as 3-4 sevens in 41 throws.

Thanks,

I’m not an expert but the choice of a set assumes that you keep the dice on axis and they rotate together with a perfect throw.

For instance if you made a perfect throw with a seven set you would always throw a seven.

Noah

Even an expert knows that he will not make the same results every time no matter how good he is .
Good Rolling. 😀 😀

So true finisher , but a advanced player will learn to hit the same spot everytime well almost everytime.

This is what allows us to succed.

Five is pointing out the fact that you must be able to produce the same shot over and over to ever get anywhere with what we do.

A great baseball pitcher throw his fastball the same everytime just in a different location of the plate that is what you call control, hence a controlled shooter throws his dice the same in the same area everytime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So TRUE Bman .
This post was intended to be about the dice set and I was just trying to say that it is part of a hole lot of things put together to come up with a end that is good.
Like your baseball thing your need to know how to grip that ball. I am not a baseball player at all . But I renumber when I took my son to see a player at the local he got a ball from him and he then explained to my surprise how to grasp it to throw it to first base and told him that it is different then pitching.
That should me that I know NOTHING about baseball and leave the coaching to some one who knows. My son did play a little ball but was better at swimming.
He now teaches HS math.
I think that the set is part of what we want to achieve. Or would we just not set the dice.
Good Rolling. 😀 😀

After and only after you have achieved a controled throw then you will know what set you need to produce the numbers you want, because you will know what to expect out of your toss and when you aer on and when you are not.

A controlled throw is throw that bounces hits the wall and stays within 4 to 8 inches of that.

Thanks for all the replies, I’m not sure how the dice set question set off a conversation about having perfect technique and a perfect throw. Nonetheless from what I get out of these responses is, just as in the Baseball analogy and also in just about every sport. Everyone starts out with the basics and mechanics of how to perform the task, but not everyone becomes the absolute best at their sport. There is always one who stands out and becomes the best of the best.

Like the Pitcher who’s taught how to grip the ball and windup and release it, all of a sudden you get a guy like Nolan Ryan. Not to say I know how Nolan Ryan became the great pitcher he was, but maybe he had stumbled on something or some special way he found that produced great results for him. Also to be clear I am not comparing myself to any of the greatest dice players or athletes for that matter, I’m just pointing out an observation.

Because I have never taken a class and I am knew to this I guess I’m looking for a way to figure out if what I’m doing is right so I was asking if it was ok to find a set that works for me better then other sets that are taught in the literature? I wasn’t sure if I should keep practicing the sets from the books until I got better results, or because I happen to stumble on a dice set that produces great results better then all the others I could practice with it. Maybe nobody can answer that question which is fine because if I can shoot in real situations a fraction as well as I have been in practice I will be one happy man. But I get what you guys are saying, I understand that staying on axis and being consistent is very important.
Once again thanks for the input everyone.

the book tells you to practice the hardway set it is the set you can tell what the dice are doing.

I am stating that making the same throw is more important than any set, you are putting the cart in front of the horse.

If you can mnot make the same throw every time the dice are random and the set does not matter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"It’s never the set". That statement has stuck with me since it first sunk in to my thick skull.

If you appear to be getting different results by changing to some "off brand" set the real problem is somewhere in the toss. The true goal is to hit the primary set, hardways with the HW set, 6&8 with the 3V, 4&10 with 2V. The strenght of the HW set is that the dice have to double pitch, yaw, or roll to produce a 7. Can’t say the same thing about the others.

It would be like a golf friend of mine that has a large slice. Rather than correct his swing, he sets up aiming way to the left to compensate for it. When he screws up and swings correctly, he’s DEEP in the woods or OB.

Another thought, it might be all in your head. Similar to say a lucky rabbit’s foot. There is no real power in the rabbit’s foot, but mentally it might give that extra boost of confidence. "If I use this set, I get better results" kind of thing. Or conversely "please dont’ let me throw a 7". We all know how that one ends. 😮

deep in the woods ouch!

I hear what your saying, I actually have a golf buddy who does that always has, but in his defense he is not bad…

My point is simply this, I do use the HW, 3V & 2V sets and I do well without looking at it going by memory I had over 6,000 throws with SRR of over 7 I think 7.6 or something. But I do know for sure that since I came across the set I raised this question on 6/3 – 3/6 I have documented 1148 throws that’s four of my practice sheets using this set alone, I only have 84 sevens hats a SRR 13.6. That’s all I’m saying, I have never done that well with any other set, I don’t think that is random. There could be many reasons which I’m not doing this long enough to know but it could be because of my right hand? I was a fighter my right hand has been broken umpteen times there’s a huge lump on the top I have restricted wrist action? I don’t know what I do know is the results don’t lie and if throwing many numbers without throwing a seven is the game then I’m doing something right.

Thanks for the input I appreciate the tips

Sevenout You had me think about the only time I played golf. It was retirement time for a co-worker so I thought it would be nice and treat them to the Legacy course in PX. Which is more then the public greens that they play on.
Well I was hitting the ball strait as an arrow but it was 3 ft. off the ground and would hit the near by desert plaints . So they told me to back up about 6in. to get loft. Well low and behold that did the trick. Of course there is more to that . It did go way up in the air then hit the silo that was on the property but on the wrong side and I LOST my ball with LOLs.
Then on the next green they said to just aim towards their ball . Well my shoot went so straight that it hit one of their balls over 75 yds away. LOTS OF LAUGHS AGAIN HAD A GREAT TIME.
i JUST DID EN LIKE THAT i WAS SUPPOSE TO BRING MY OWN CLUBS. That is a new-be for you. Good Rolling. 😀 😀

84- 7s on 1148 throws is huge. It is statistically significant. It is 8 standard deviations below the average of 191- 7s a random roller would have.

Still 1148 throws is a small sample in this thing we do. Get up to 6000 practice throws with this set. At 6000 you want

fewer than
913- 7s
128- 2s
280- 3s
280- 11s
128- 12s

greater than
564- 4s
739- 5s
913- 6s
913- 8s
739- 9s
564- 10s

These are the 3 standard deviation marks. Less than for 7s and Horn which we don’t want. Greater than for box numbers which we want. Any numbers which meet or beat the 3rd standard deviation you are showing influence over. Then bet into your edge.

You may have found your optimum set. Hopefully it holds up over time in practice and at the tables. Best of luck.

PatS Hope Chuckman made you feel better.I am not a math even tho my son teaches HS math.
I have not tried that set yet but I have not practiced vary much lately do to cold weather and my new Gr daughter is here till Oct. 18 .
Good Rolling. 😀 😀

PatS Have you been reading All these post about sets ?
I still have not tried your set yet but maybe this weekend .
Hope all is well with you.
Good Rolling. 😀 😀

"PatsS" wrote: I hear what your saying, I actually have a golf buddy who does that always has, but in his defense he is not bad…

My point is simply this, I do use the HW, 3V & 2V sets and I do well without looking at it going by memory I had over 6,000 throws with SRR of over 7 I think 7.6 or something. But I do know for sure that since I came across the set I raised this question on 6/3 – 3/6 I have documented 1148 throws that’s four of my practice sheets using this set alone, I only have 84 sevens hats a SRR 13.6. That’s all I’m saying, I have never done that well with any other set, I don’t think that is random. There could be many reasons which I’m not doing this long enough to know but it could be because of my right hand? I was a fighter my right hand has been broken umpteen times there’s a huge lump on the top I have restricted wrist action? I don’t know what I do know is the results don’t lie and if throwing many numbers without throwing a seven is the game then I’m doing something right.

Thanks for the input I appreciate the tips

Someone above said that 1168 is just not enough to get any kind of statistical reading on what your SRR is. And that is true. It takes at least 6000 throws.

Noah said that all these sets that we recommend are based on the perfect throw, BMan is saying that as well. You should be trying in your practice to get the perfect throw … dice looking together in the air and landing on the same spot with the same energy.

You said you are new to this dice control thing, and I am glad that you have come to our site to try to learn to do this the right way. I will say this to you, you would never see me using a set like you described.

Bman’s analogy to a baseball player is so right on to me. There is only one player that has ever hit 400 and that is Ted Williams, and every kid learns the Ted Williams style of hitting as he grows up. Now as he grows he begins to have others tell him to do his stance this way or that way and as he grows he changes his stance and such and maybe even makes it to the pros. But guess what, he still can’t bat 400.

I guess what I am saying is that first you must learn to do things the right way, and then from there you might change things, but all the great shooters in GTC would never change the set

Dominator

What do you expect ??? How many people play baseball ? Just think out of ALL those players only ONE has ever hit 400 .
Well I think that you need more then just training to get to the top .Sure it helps to have a GREAT coach . But you also need the talent and the will to do it . Also a chance to succeed.

A lot of people on this site are not in good enough shape for one reason or another to be the best. But it can be fun trying. 😀
So I have a question. What is a 400 hitter in craps ? I don’t think that even with the best training me I would ever get there . But I do enjoy throwing the dice along with meeting others that like craps. This is a great site with a lot of great people on it. If you can enjoy this more and win more then before you got here then that is great . We all cant win all the time.

One other thing that we forget about the record is held by some one with no training at all . Only rolled 2 times so maybe we can get lucky some day.
I hope Gman gets his royal some day. Just a thought .

As far as the set goes if you never try it you may miss the set of your life. 😀 😀
I am not good with history . But there had to be a time when some body taught some one the new throw it was called a slider and all they knew was the fast ball or ???.
All the types of throws did not come on the same day in our life. It was a journey just like they say craps is on this site .
I am glad that some one got tired of typing and and came up with the mouse. 😀 😀 😀
Good Rolling. 😀 😀

I believe that it was first called a spitter.

I may be wrong but I don’t think that Ted Williams was the "only" one to bat.400. My thinking is that Williams was the las one to hit .400 as there were many—and no I do not know their names–who made the .400 category back in the beginning of baseball in the early 1900’s and late 1800’s. As actually met Ted Williams as a teenager when my uncle was the manager of the Red Sox.

Just a bit of a fact not really concerning craps.

It’s early and I will try and write something of interest for us craps players.

Doc

Doc,

Your right on your assumption that there were more than one. There are 35 players on that list. Roger Hornsby, Ty Cobb, and Ed Delahanty had 3 400 seasons. I say Seasons for that is what the records show, there have been no .400 career averages in MLB.

Another interesting fact I turned up while researching this … In 1887, when a player received a bases on balls (walk) he was also awarded a hit in his official statistics. Tip O’Neil for the 1887 season had a .485 average, and interestingly still holds the highest batting average ever for a single season. Ted Williams batted .406 in the 1941 season and there hasn’t been another since. He once remarked … "I hope somebody hits .400 soon. Then people can start pestering that guy with questions about the last guy to hit .400."

"Dr Crapology" wrote: I may be wrong but I don’t think that Ted Williams was the "only" one to bat.400. My thinking is that Williams was the las one to hit .400 as there were many—and no I do not know their names–who made the .400 category back in the beginning of baseball in the early 1900’s and late 1800’s. As actually met Ted Williams as a teenager when my uncle was the manager of the Red Sox.

Just a bit of a fact not really concerning craps.

It’s early and I will try and write something of interest for us craps players.

Doc

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/hitting/hi400c.shtml

You guys are right, I should have said the last one

Sorry!

Dom

[b]Pat S

You have not taken a class from GTC and if and when you do you will be intructed to use the Hard Way set for the first couple of years in your journet to becoming a dice controll. This set is the best and easiest way to avoid the dreaded 7.

Keep it simple and easy.