I keepp very accurate records of all my sessions. Have since I took the primer in Chicago Sept 2010. I have had some very good trips, some bad trips and some ok trips. As far as up or down I’ll put it this way. I started with a 401G of $500 and had $100 a month auto trnsfer to it from my main checking accnt. I also have added some birthday money and a few hundred from a tax return. From looking at my records I figure that over the past two years I am up several hundred playing craps the GTC way. I am not making big money but then I never expected to. Still my 501 G is alot bigger than when I started.

I have reported winning on my 1040 every year since I took the class.

Noah

So far only two replies is not exactly a ringing endorsement for the classes!!!

Thia ia not the kinda thing people want to tak about.

Now how is maddy hayes of darnell county lawer dagget?

"NobleJ" wrote: So far only two replies is not exactly a ringing endorsement for the classes!!!

Hello Noble J

First of all, are you up up right now with the way you currently play? Whether you are or you aren’t up why are you on this message board? I suspect you, like all of us, want to be a winner at this game of craps.

I think you are wanting to know if the classes are going to make you a winner. The short and blunt answer is no. The classes give you tools, you need to decide what you are going to do with the tools. I have seen several people take the classes, learn everything that is taught them, and then go into the casino and revert to the "gambler" they were before. After the inevitable losses that would follow-some derogatory comment about how "this GTC stuff doesn’t work" would be uttered. Well it wasn’t the class that failed these people.

I personally have taken the Primer, Refresher, and Advanced courses. I have also participated in the WCC as well as a tune up. You can do the addition of what I have spent on my training. I personally have not kept track of my gambling account as well as others on here. I don’t know whether I am up or down in the long term with my craps 401G (due to using it for family emergencies) but to answer your question about being up or down. Let us say for the sake of argument that I am down.

What I have learned is it is not so much about the money as much about the people I have met. I may be down in money but WAY up in friends and as for the money…you can’t take it with you when you die, I would rather have the friends…I can always make more money.

If I had to do it over again I would not change a thing, I would take all the classes again.

Easy Roller

Danny I am also very very new at this and would like to give you my take on this whole thing, even though I’m not yet a real "dice Controller" I would like to offer my opinion on the subject.

I feel that taking a class can only make you as good as you want to be, as far as needing reinforcent or I should say reassurence that taking the class would be worth it and make you win a million dollars, well i think that is a question that noone can answer. I would assume that you have read the books and watched the videos as I have, I would also assume that you are practicing using the methods you’ve learned so far? If this is all true as it is my case, then I don’t understand your skepticism? I know that I can tell by now that it is possible to manipulate the outcome of your roll by properly implementing the correct grip, set and toss as should you. I have read answers to many questions I have had by reading through older posts on here and also asking the instructors questions also on here. But at the end of the day, it’s all up to me as to what i will do with the information I obsorb. Personally I’ve decided I’m dedicated to perfecting this thing, therefore I practice often and read even more often, then I try to do exactly what I’m supposed to do to get the result I’m looking for.

My point is, if you can’t tell by your own results by now that taking a class will defenatley help give you the knowledge to help you get the edge you need to excell. Then you may be right, maybe it wouldn’t be worth it for you. I am convinced only because I have seen it with my own eyes, I have seen the dice land consistently on the number I set for more then just a few times. But on the other hand I have also seen how such shuttle things can alter the outcome. So that’s why I can’t Waite to take the classes I’m determined to be one of the best Controllers ever.

So there you go that’s my 2Cents, I guess that’s why my friends call me 2Cents as a nickname I’m always putting in my 2Cents. Good luck Danny hope to meet you sometime.

"PatS" wrote: Danny I am also very very new at this and would like to give you my take on this whole thing, even though I’m not yet a real "dice Controller" I would like to offer my opinion on the subject.

I feel that taking a class can only make you as good as you want to be, as far as needing reinforcent or I should say reassurence that taking the class would be worth it and make you win a million dollars, well i think that is a question that noone can answer. I would assume that you have read the books and watched the videos as I have, I would also assume that you are practicing using the methods you’ve learned so far? If this is all true as it is my case, then I don’t understand your skepticism? I know that I can tell by now that it is possible to manipulate the outcome of your roll by properly implementing the correct grip, set and toss as should you. I have read answers to many questions I have had by reading through older posts on here and also asking the instructors questions also on here. But at the end of the day, it’s all up to me as to what i will do with the information I obsorb. Personally I’ve decided I’m dedicated to perfecting this thing, therefore I practice often and read even more often, then I try to do exactly what I’m supposed to do to get the result I’m looking for.

My point is, if you can’t tell by your own results by now that taking a class will defenatley help give you the knowledge to help you get the edge you need to excell. Then you may be right, maybe it wouldn’t be worth it for you. I am convinced only because I have seen it with my own eyes, I have seen the dice land consistently on the number I set for more then just a few times. But on the other hand I have also seen how such shuttle things can alter the outcome. So that’s why I can’t Waite to take the classes I’m determined to be one of the best Controllers ever.

So there you go that’s my 2Cents, I guess that’s why my friends call me 2Cents as a nickname I’m always putting in my 2Cents. Good luck Danny hope to meet you sometime.

Thanks for the kind words. I am just curious if all this stuff really works. Yes I have read two of franks books so far. I have watched the gtc video. I have read a lot on these forums. I bought a setup and have been practicing. I’m optimistic to see results. I’d hate to waste all my time and energy if a system was merely a scam to sell books, forum subscriptions, and other craps material. I’m an engineer so I question things. I will continue to apply the methods taught here and apply them at the casinos. I hope you do well too Pat.

As others have posted, many people are uncomfortable posting this type of information. I keep very detailed records of all my casino activities. I have posted profits in each of the last several years in craps, blackjack and advantage slot machines – though I will not say how much. What we do works. It is hard work but is pays off.

What Skinny said is the flat out truth. If your looking for the "Golden Goose" better not take the class. This isn’t easy and you sure as hell aren’t going to be able to retire from it. But given enough time, practice and patience you can become good enough to make small profits. And small profits is what makes you "UP".

You have to decide what level your willing to participate at. We can’t make you profitable or up, that’s your job.

"Stickman" wrote: As others have posted, many people are uncomfortable posting this type of information. I keep very detailed records of all my casino activities. I have posted profits in each of the last several years in craps, blackjack and advantage slot machines – though I will not say how much. What we do works. It is hard work but is pays off.

I guess I don’t get this feeling of being uncomfortable. in an office place, I know why ppl don’t want to share their salary. But on a paid gambling forum, what difference does it make? Perhaps it stems from some of you knowing each other from the classes. but just random internet users to me holding back info seems odd. To each their own.

One reason there are casino types they have access to this board so why would you want them to know for sure that you are taking their money

Another reason may be that, contrary to what tax law requires, I have known some people who do not report their taxable gains unless they received a W-2G for those winnings. Don’t know if there are any IRS types on the board and don’t know if anyone on this board doesn’t play their taxes correctly.

Noah

I can tell you that I am not up and provably never will be . But on the other side of the coin I do think that the class is worth it if you learn and do the things that they teach in it. I did hear a couple talk about how much they were winning from their last class . But they also were saying a lot about how they bet.Which was not the way that it was taught in class. So it led me to believe that it works for some that follow the way GTC teaches . But not ALL do it the same way.
They seemed happy with their wins but the instructor did not seem to impressed with the bets that they said they made money on. He also did not say any thing negative to them about their betting but I could tell that he was not impressed. I said nothing just listened and learned.
Just think of all the golfers out there that take lessons and never make a dime playing but have more fun.
Like Dom and all the rest say that 10% will get good at this so you do the math there are 50,000 craps players out there or more but most have not even taken the class. They say only 10% that take the class will be good so the math tells you that you need to work to get ahead.
I say that I never will get ahead for a few reasons. One big one is that I have been rolling the bones to long and still do. 😀 😀 Like close to 40 years now . I also bet vary little so it is hard to make up for 30 years of losses .
It is great to meet GTC TYPE OF PEOPLE .
Fist you need to love this or you will not be great. Do you really think that all great players just do it for the money ? I think that it helps . But there has to be more then that to get you threw the bad times.
Just some thoughts .
Good Rolling. 😀 😀

I am way ahead but I started slow because I couldn’t get it through my thick head to bet the exact way GTC says. The classes are definitely worth taking.

I’ve doubled my 401G bankroll. I think of that as a major success.

I highly doubt IRS people are stalking dice throwing forums just to try and bust someone for withholding a little gambling income. That made me laugh though 🙂

I am up too. Took a little while but with practice I am there. I am now making up my losses from over the years. That will take time but GTC was the key to turning it around. Danny P. you got plenty of reponses. Most people don’t post. You seem snippy to me.

I sense some latent nastiness because people aren’t leaping to write something here. I’m up. Period.

"DannyP" wrote: I highly doubt IRS people are stalking dice throwing forums just to try and bust someone for withholding a little gambling income. That made me laugh though 🙂

Man! There are a lot of comments in this post such as the one above that really just pis*(*&^ me off!

The use of the word, Scam or just a way to sell books …. Jezzzz! Listen if you don’t want to believe this works or don’t believe this works, please do me a favor …. shout it from the high tops so that all casino people will hear you say that this doesn’t work and will stop bothering people that attempt dice control.

As far as the IRS or casino people being on this site, there could be. I am very uncomfortable talking about what I have made in the lat 28+ years gambling. I am sure that others feel like that as well.

Honestly I don’t want to hear if people are up or down, this site is devoted to help people become better players and I think we do a very good job through our books, DVD and classes to make people better players and to understand what it takes to beat the casinos.

Dominator

I agree with Dom but I will jump in. I am up about fifty percent of my bankroll in my account. I do have to fight the gambler in me but if you are asking is this a worthwhile class to take? Absolutely.

Took two years of losing less and less and then I started to have winning years ever since. I owe it all to GTC. They never say it is easy but practice and right betting will do it for you.

Up in my one year or so doing it right! 😀

"Dominator" wrote: [quote="DannyP"]I highly doubt IRS people are stalking dice throwing forums just to try and bust someone for withholding a little gambling income. That made me laugh though 🙂

Man! There are a lot of comments in this post such as the one above that really just pis*(*&^ me off!

The use of the word, Scam or just a way to sell books …. Jezzzz! Listen if you don’t want to believe this works or don’t believe this works, please do me a favor …. shout it from the high tops so that all casino people will hear you say that this doesn’t work and will stop bothering people that attempt dice control.

As far as the IRS or casino people being on this site, there could be. I am very uncomfortable talking about what I have made in the lat 28+ years gambling. I am sure that others feel like that as well.

Honestly I don’t want to hear if people are up or down, this site is devoted to help people become better players and I think we do a very good job through our books, DVD and classes to make people better players and to understand what it takes to beat the casinos.

Dominator

How do you measure success at gambling if it isn’t with p/l ? Maybe % gain is better than actual amount up. I never said I don’t believe in the system. I tried it this past weekend with mixed results. I was merely polling the audience.

Danny P did you take a GTC class? If not you haven’t tried it. I have been doing this for six years now and it works. You do have to practice and bet the right way to turn a profit. I am up a lot and I play a lot too. It is a slow grind most of the time but controlled shooting is real and I have done it enough to have the true stamp of approval as you say. I am ahead.

"DannyP" wrote: [quote="Dominator"][quote="DannyP"]I highly doubt IRS people are stalking dice throwing forums just to try and bust someone for withholding a little gambling income. That made me laugh though 🙂

Man! There are a lot of comments in this post such as the one above that really just pis*(*&^ me off!

The use of the word, Scam or just a way to sell books …. Jezzzz! Listen if you don’t want to believe this works or don’t believe this works, please do me a favor …. shout it from the high tops so that all casino people will hear you say that this doesn’t work and will stop bothering people that attempt dice control.

As far as the IRS or casino people being on this site, there could be. I am very uncomfortable talking about what I have made in the lat 28+ years gambling. I am sure that others feel like that as well.

Honestly I don’t want to hear if people are up or down, this site is devoted to help people become better players and I think we do a very good job through our books, DVD and classes to make people better players and to understand what it takes to beat the casinos.

Dominator

How do you measure success at gambling if it isn’t with p/l ? Maybe % gain is better than actual amount up. I never said I don’t believe in the system. I tried it this past weekend with mixed results. I was merely polling the audience.

DannyP,

It is the snide comments that are in your question and some of the response from one other that makes me crazy. The comment about being a scam or just a site to sell books and DVD’s that pis*&^ es me off.

Polling the audience ???? I am sick of polling after this election. (Sorry to being my political views with this comment).

Success at gambling has many different measurements. One would be if you are up, but that also has other considerations. When you calculate if you are up are you taking inconsideration just coming home with more money or are you taking the FREE dinners or rooms that you used to pay for.

All I am saying is that the subject of this post is for someone to find out if all the practice and time is worth it. This can not be answered with your question polling others. You must answer the question yourself and for those that don’t think it is worth it, so be it

Dominator

I look at it like I look at most things that I pay for. Will I use it after I receive it or just do nothing with all that I payed for.
Just a thought you bye a boat but never put it in the water or a time share and never use it .
They give you enough in this class that in the long run you will be better off then if you had not taken the class . But it is still how much you use what they give you .Take notes and good ones so that DP wont say that you are bad at taking notes like ME.
You will enjoy the class even if you don’t use all of what they try to teach you in 2 days.
Worth it that is UP to YOU.
Good Rolling.
PS I had a larger investment before I took the class which was the love of throwing the bones and I built my own table with help from members on this site before I took the class and all the losses before the class.

Two years of steadily winning more and more but still somewhat behind and then about five years with consistent wins and some of these years were big. GTC is the boss!

Up

I am up.

It is a grind I admit because you don’t want to get caught in the fever of playing like most craps players. But once you calm yourself down and work on your throw and betting you will win in the long run. I am up quite a bit since I took the class. To me that is great since I lost a small fortune before I learned from GTC.

This is definitely a worthwhile experience. I am much more successful when I five-count. I try my best to bet only on myself, but sometimes get bored or impatient when tables are crowded.
Quit asking questions and just go for it!

Up up up and away!!! 😆

Been doing this for a while now. It took two and one half years for me to swing it in my direction. Practice and betting into my edge made the difference. I use the five count on all other shooters. In the past five years I am way ahead.

I believe there is no way to survive without the GTC knowledge. I also believe there is no way to truly know if you are doing it right without the class. I am up about 9k in comps in the last 2.5 years. However, this year, playing only 5 sessions, I am down $50. I see GTC and playing craps as my vacation club.

I am up in Pai Gow!!!!

Yeah, baby!!!

😮 😮 😮 😮

So am I…great game if played correctly…unless you are at Bellagio. I blame you for that one! 😀

"Not2soon" wrote: I am up in Pai Gow!!!!

Yeah, baby!!!

😮 😮 😮 😮

I never used to bet the $1 progressive bonus bet. Thought it was a waste of money. Then i saw a guy hit the 135,000 at Gila River here in Phoenix. Made me a believer as I was trying to get on that table just 10 mins before but it was full. Even the envy bonus paid a couple thousand I think.

I think a lot of people think that because you control the dice you win every time you play. Doesn’t happen. It is as someone said something of a grind. You have to do everything right. You can win. I am quite ahead but it requires effort. It doesn’t come easy.