Three to five students per two instructors plus Dom and me going from group to group. Your arm will fall off and we’ll work on what you are saying.

Frank

Using a mirror might help, but you won’t have that luxury at the casino, so don’t just use the visual, you need muscle memory. Use the mirror at practice, get in the habit of what it needs to feel like, then that should help in real-time play. You are spot-on, Bman picked that pesky habit I had early on, been trying to build that into my practice ever since. Important esp. on those longer rolls!

The Griz has a good idea. Alligator Rose and I use a large mirror (24 by 36 inches) at the end of our craps table (or the receiving station) and will, for this drill, watch our reflection in the mirror from pick up to release. It helps to make sure our throw is on.

Give it a try.

Doc

Stealthman,

I remember those great class notes of yours.

Be sure to refer to them regularly as they contain a wealth of information from all of the instructors.

Also, little things matter very much with "this thing of ours." A small defect can magnify into something significant, especially if grooved in over time.

I’ll also suggest that you continue practicing the two gripper drills you learned in class.

As Frank said, get your rest before the Refresher class. You’re going to need it…!

😎 😎 😎

I think I originally got this tip from No Field Five so Kudos to him as this has really helped me.

Use the mirror to line up your shoulders as several have suggested. When you get them exactly how you need to have them then close your eyes and "feel" the way your shoulders are positioned. Don’t throw but just concentrate on your body alignment. Do this many times every day throughout your practise sessions.

Eventually, after quite a few days doing this exercise, close your eyes and get in the proper alignment. Then open your eyes to the mirror and see how you did. Once you can do this then you should be able to do this in the casino routinely and be pretty sure of it without the help of the mirror. 🙂

Frank – thanks, but from earlier post it sounded like the class was going to be much bigger than it looks to have turned out. I was wondering where all those potential students were going to fit?

It seems that after throwing my glued dice, then the bowl practice, my dice look good then it degrades.

With these ideas, hopefully I can keep the shifting from happening. In a way I see what the mirror could do, but I guess I need to play with it or get some pictures from those who use it to better understand it!

19 days to go!

Thanks, Timmer. My notes help in that they have the reference to square shoulders, BUT the mind and body do interesting things as you repeat something over and over again! And of coarse, what was I doing today for making money? Today I was hanging and finishing drywall. We will see what happens in practice!

Thanks all

Jim
Thanks

The most important thing about practice is you need to know what your throw should look like, what the dice should land like and where they should end up after landing. If you dont have those well grounded
ideas in your mind, it is hard to have the practice provide improvement.

When i am practicing something, i dont set the dice on the hardways, i just set them, and throw, i dont care what the number is i am looking at my release, the landing etc, when i feel the throw is what i want, then i set them and see what the results are.

gman

"the gman" wrote: The most important thing about practice is you need to know what your throw should look like, what the dice should land like and where they should end up after landing. If you dont have those well grounded
ideas in your mind, it is hard to have the practice provide improvement.

When i am practicing something, i dont set the dice on the hardways, i just set them, and throw, i dont care what the number is i am looking at my release, the landing etc, when i feel the throw is what i want, then i set them and see what the results are.

gman

Gman,
I like your post. I’m going to print it LARGE and have it prominently displayed at my practice table.
I seems to condence what may be essentials of perfect practice covered in parts by others:
Know (and visualize) what you want to accomplish (and ingrain into your muscle memory):
a pair of to-gether dice backspinning slowly and softly on an arc to a target spot,
a soft and quiet on-axis landing and bounce straight into those pyramids,
a slight thud coming off the pyramids,
a satisfying settling on the felt not far from the back-wall,
an imagined look of dismay on a pit-boss’s smirk,
a watchful eye for imperfections to be worked on, one at a time,
an ever constant seeking of your own unique throw and honing toward perfection.
Don’t fixate on the dice numbers, they will naturally follow.

Stealthman,

We have 18 instructors working the classes. Look forward to meeting you.

Frank

Stealthman, if you are practicing soon after work, I can imagine your muscles might already be tired. Be sure to rest before practice.

Try to work on one component at a time, without worrying about the results of the dice.

If your dice are landing left, look to see if your shoulder and arm/hand during release are pointing to the left.
This can be checked by throwing with a long mirror in the background. I have a mirror hooked onto a closet behind the receiving rig, and have the rigs positioned such that I can see my release when I throw.

The small mirror, given to you by GTC, can be used to check your finger position.

Until you take the class, I would suggest that you work on the specifics without concern for the results. The grip is the most important thing. Use the gripper and the small mirror to practice.

The instrucors will look closely at all the elements of your toss, and I am certain you will feel better after the class.

Goddess

Gman – thanks, agreed that you need to know what the dice should look like to have any chance of figuring out what is wrong with your throw at the moment.

Most of the time when the dice leave my hand I have a good feeling if the result is going to be bad! Goldfinger called it my throwing groan!

Three nights ago after hanging and finishing drywall all day, I was stiff and tired. Took a shower and went to practice. After warm-ups, 41,44,22,44,and a few more until about the 12th or 13th throw. I started out with nice dice with very little bounce, but at 12 something changed, the dice started going every which way and so did the results. Thinking about it, I think I was starting to stiffen up after loosening up in the shower.

The next night, fair results .

Tonight, practice did not go well. Just not good in most every way.

Tried a number of things with no luck.

Started throwing for real (at least to record the results) and had a 27 roll with 2 11’s, and the rest box numbers.

REALLY had to concentrate after the bad warm up session. got into a routine of setting, breathing, focus eyes, cock shoulder and standing erect. All of the above I have been doing BUT this time more of a step by step procedure, since I am trying to fix my problem of the last few weeks.

Over the last year, several things have happened with my throw, that was just the human body trying to learn something new, especially the fine motor skills, and the body saying that was good but let me shift things a bit without telling you.

Example, my grip morphed over several weeks, to where the dice felt very good in my hand but the angles were all wrong. The finger tips were in the right position on the dice but the hand was cocked sideward.
Another I found that after awhile my posture was extremely poor and effecting my swing. And now, I had shifted a hair sideways.

The end result is I tell myself that I can do this, because in Cedar Rapids my throw looked as if I was throwing a glued pair of dice. It was beautiful.

SO IT CAN BE DONE!

Goddess, my problem with setting up the mirror is the angle. How is it set up so you can see how the swing and shoulders are square. A little twist of the mirror would seem to give you a wrong perspective on your angles.

As far as bouncing left or right, I think I am seeing that with my follow thru that Randman and Skinny suggested (the Heisman) I must be doing something subtle with my back swing but following thru to target with my follow thru???

Thanks everyone!

If they are both bouncing left or right your hand is not square at release. Most common for a righty from sl is for them to bounce to the left. That is normally caused by hooking the hand inside on the backswing and then swinging around and back inside at the follow thru tilting the hand slightly.

If they bounce to the left from sl the left side of your hand is higher than the right at release. If they bounce right the right side of your hand is higher than the left.

You need to be square at release to get the dice to bounce straight back off the wall.

Is any of this what is happening?

At first they are staying in the middle, BUT after a bit they start going left or right. Sometimes I can feel a sway in my backswing and it usually results in a 16.

Skinny, so with a mirror placed correctly I should be able to watch my backswing same as if I was high speed video recording it like I have the ability to do. BUT during my spare time from midnight to 5 am I am trying to catch some ZZZZZZ’s. What a waste of 5 or 6 hours.

Also using the small torpedo level I believe could help. Now to set up a pair of dice with the level attached.

Less that 14 days.

I am gonna guess you are pushing threw with your thumb causing them to go all over.

Do you feel the dice sliping out of your hand?

Is your arm swing quick? try holding the dice a little tighter with your fingers not the thumb.

I think the pushing can happen real easy when you get into a roll and not notice it.
Bman has a good eye.
Good Rolling. 😀

Bman – sometimes just setting them and getting to start throw I will drop my inside die. Always the inside die. Middle finger is centered with the thumb looking to be off center to the inside die, BUT when turned to be looked at the thumb pad is centered on the dice.

Back swing is short, as I found with a longer back swing my arm goes everywhere BUT straight. Skinny emphasized that with MarkM3 during primer class.

Interesting thought on applying more pressure with the middle finger as opposed to both finger and thumb with the other two fingers acting as wings. Hope to try that either this afternoon or tomorrow. Sometimes I will lose the inner die on the swing, and sometimes I think I open my fingers as i finish my follow thru. Not regular but it happens.

Okay lets start with this i want you to do only one thing today throw the dice until you can feel them pull out fo you hand every time, until you can do this you need not worry about anything else.

Once you get them pulling out evenly at the same time it would be easy to fix any other slight problem.

so my first sugestion is to grip them a little tighter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you think this is easy just ask around how many can do it,lmao.

I will start a post asking.

Bman – with paying attention to my backswing and your suggestion of a little more pressure from the middle finger (as you said A LOT HARDER THAN YOU THINK) the dice are staying together in the air better and most of the time not bouncing to far either direction.

NOW, on axis is another story. Getting a lot of either a 1 or 6! Had several in a row that the left die was 5 and the right was 1,1,4,5,1! I toss a group of 6 pair of dice at a time! Went to pick them up to bring back to the throwing station and so the above and went HUH!

One toss, one die went left the other went right. Way right and left!

Then again once in awhile my hand twitches and the dice will be rotating in the air but I let them go by slightly opening my grip on the follow through! My knuckleball!

3 more days!