This also happened at least three time to us (see my report for this week), and the regular players next to me went ballistic each time because it caused me to 7 out. The three students with us always obeyed the commandments. However, a girl friend of one of them did not, and we left her table for another empty one.

Goddess

NO But I would like to play with players that abide by the 20Cs even if they have not taken the class.
Good Rolling.

Dom I feel your pain. It’s happened to many of us.
I myself will color up without a word and move.
I have had others that have given a word or two to the culprit.

I wish your were going to tell us, that you might have smacked him one! 😈

If I would leave every time one of the 20 was mis-used I would not play vary much.
I like empty tables but it does not take long for others to come out of nowhere.Most of the time one of the 20 is broken right off the bat. The dealers will say lots of time don’t worry he is patient. Since I vary seldom say any thing about any thing going on at the table.
It is their money and their game so who am I to say any thing.
I did get upset not to long ago when I came back from the bath room to find a don’t player with my spot and playing with my chips. I told the pit boss guy that I would move over to the next table but wanted him to get my chips back and check with the eye in the sky to see if he bet any of my chips.Things got a little tense when the guy started arguing with my wife and LOL about the whole thing.
So I really like it when there are GTC types at the table.The ones that I have played with were GREAT.
Good Rolling.

Honestly, I see as many or more "GTC types" do this crap than regular players!

This is why I just avoid people! 🙂

"Not2soon" wrote: Honestly, I see as many or more "GTC types" do this crap than regular players!

This is why I just avoid people! 🙂

Hermit-rolling is sometimes the best… get the dice back quickly and win efficiently!

Great point!! And it happens all the time. But I do have to give credit for all the students who are very respectful 🙂

Randman

For this to come from one of our students is sad. We all talk about the top 10% of the students rising to the top. It’s the bottom 90% that are killing it for everyone and making us all look bad.

I agree.

DP you are so wrong i have come to love the 90% they have convinced the casinos that what we do does not work for a large enuff group of setters that they are willing to put up with the few that cane make it work.

Yes that is right they no longer want to run off the few and lose some of the many in the proccess.

Yes you still get to pick and choose who you play with.

Hmmm I think just like in every sport or things that we do there are some that do it the right way and some that don’t.Just that you are able to do it does not mean that you are abiding by the rules that may be set up.So it does not matter if you are in the 10% or 90% it is you not how good you are. A jerk is what he is whether he is good at this or not.
I think that I am in the 90% and try my best to follow the 20 Cs.Some times it is hard with all the distractions there are at the tables.Of course I am getting OLD and slow and being short does not help any.
Thinking about that I may have built my table to tall.I just thought that I cut all the wood but I did not take into account for the little legs I put on them to raise the wood off the patio.I will have to go out and remeasure.
DP Thanks for making me think about it. I hope I took that into account when I built it.I would be alot of work to change it now.Every inch counts now that I am getting shorter. 😀
Good Rolling. 😀

Never meet a ten percenter who did not play by the rules of the game.

That is all i am saying, the casinos grumble less and less the longer setting is around and the more people do it.

i agree with Bman

Last week at H’s i was throwing and the boxman said wow i see you have seen the video.. i said nothing
just kept throwing. He started talking to the dealers and said something like he has been doing this for
15 years or so and it never works…. h’s he said is a very large casino concern and if dice setting worked
they would not allow.

I bought in for $200 and colored up after three hands for $580 and said thank you. see you tomorrow.

I just play the game, i dont care if some one buys in during my throw, its no different than if some hits
a 15 against a dealers 6… shit happens
I do the best i can. i can only conrol what i do/

Sometimes it is good, some times not so good.
I have long since given up on the idea that i will be a high roller at the craps table… i am just back to being me
and playin the game.

gman

Here is what happened to me on last Sunday. I am at stick right one. A slightly inebriated ploppy reaches between me and the stick man shoving me over to make a bet on the aces and 12. $15 each but the dealers and box did make him move to my right before he could drop the chips. I try to get my composure back and toss aces. The SOB made $450 and then his stupid friend joins him nearly knocking me into the stickman. Now I am PISSED! 7 out. He had pressed up to $30 each and then leaves, thank you very much. Oh, he tips the dealers $15 and when I say I am so glad he is gone one dealer says "You’re happy he is gone and he tips?" I guess he didn’t realize I had been tipping all along and had already tipped more than the A-hole. It got back to normal and I walked with nearly 6 times my buy in. Happy ending!

OMC

I don’t think it is hard to follow the 20 commandments at all. Doing the right thing at a craps table or a blackjack table is easy.

What bothered me the most is that this was a student who recently took the class and heard all about the right things to do. If a ploppy does this, no problem, except I will think of him or her as being an AH^%LE for doing it.

You see, we try to get things across during the seminar, but I guess that sometimes we don’t.

Dominator

Really !

How many of you just go to the class to find out who is who so you can try and play with them thinking you are going to strike it ritch that weekend.

There are four kinds of dice setters.

1 those who are always looking for others to play with.

2 those who have failed at it and have bought the system to give yourselves another edge.

3 my favorites the ones who set the dice take a week to do it throw the dice all over the table late bet stiff the dealers start fights at the table and so on.

4 Those who are tired of one, two and three so they never let anyone know where they are going to be.

"OneMoonCircles" wrote: […]he tips the dealers $15 and when I say I am so glad he is gone one dealer says "You’re happy he is gone and he tips?" I guess he didn’t realize I had been tipping all along and had already tipped more than the A-hole. It got back to normal and I walked with nearly 6 times my buy in. Happy ending!
OMC

OMC, I am glad it was a happy ending for you! 🙂
Some dealers are just like ploppies and value the $1 hardway tip or the 3 red chips a player tips before he leaves. They fail to notice the three bets they have working ($1 odds, $1 on top of my 6 and $1 on top of the 8) and that amount to something over the course of a session.

Also on this issue, I know we berate the ploppies that behave bad but not all ploppies are the same. I’ve seen ploppies refraining from buying in during a roll, marking their spot at the table by leaving their card on the rail to go buy chips at another table, urging the table to be careful with their hands and not make late bets, removing their chips from the landing zone for fear of the 7, using anywhere from $20 to $40 to place the outside numbers quickly so there won’t be any delays or white chips to bother with (and then place the 6 or 8 with wins). In other words, I’ve seen them cooperating and using a lot of common sense!!!

So I have a hard time even imagining that another controlled shooter would cause such a thoughtless interruption.

Experience has taught me to refrain from even correcting the dealer for short-changing me if the roll is getting good, as that may turn into a whole conversation that involves the boxman and causes a delay. And believe you me, I’ve seen a ploppy complain to the boxman, ONLY after the roll was over, that he had been paid $15 on the 9 when his initial bet had been $25. When asked why he didn’t say anything, he said he didn’t want to cause an interruption and distract the shooter (me).
So how come, with all the talk about focusing and rhythm, a controlled shooter would behave in that way? 😥 😕

The really sad part is that the Monday morning right after the class I see at least one student (maybe more) doing something stupid. For example, late buy in slowing down the game, late betting, throwing a chip from the left end of the table right through my vision for a hardway bet just as I am making my throw, rolling underhanded with the right hand from stick right, making prop bets, drunk at 8:00 am in the morning, tired from being up all night, making prop bets, placing the 5 and/or 9, you name it I’ve seen it. I have to wonder if they slept through the two days of class.

In AC I saw one student doing these things and I went ballistic. I was wrong to lose my cool. Alligator Rose and I then simply colored up and left for greener pastures.

They simply wasted their money on the class. Money wasted in the casino and money wasted on the class.

Doc

Some people are die hard gamblers and just love the action. After taking the class they think they have found the secret to easy money at the crap table.

I will bet the the same people who are buying in at the wrong time, making late/bad bets are not using the 5 counting.

It’s all about the ACTION!

Sad as this is to say, it no longer bothers me that some students just go their own ways after the class. If they are at the table with me and I am not happy with their performance then I (as Dr. Crapology did) will leave the table and go elsewhere. Almost every student who takes the class and practices will develop a controlled throw but the other aspects of the game — the betting, the proper behavior at the table, etc. — will do them in if not handled correctly.

Dom, the instructors and I do the very best we can do to make our students (and my readers) advantage players at craps. Short of shooting and playing for them; there is nothing else we can do.

The bright side exists too. We have helped far more students get an edge and/or reduce the house edge than you can imagine. I believe GTC folks are the best and those who go their own way…well, sad, but it is really no big deal to me any more.

Guys, This is a sore subject for all that take this serrious. GTC now is well known enough too draw the attention from people that only care about themselves. As long as this group is open to all that can pay the price of admission we will have our share of jerks and those that just don’t care. We are for the most part a group of great people that go out of our way to help pass along any knowledge we can.

It could be it is time to tighten our standards. Membership into this fine organization could require a sponser who is already a member to bring forth a nomination. It won’t do much for the business side of things but it sure would go a long way toward bringing an end to the damage done by people we really don’t want to be associated with in the first place.

We need to be thanking the 90 percenters because of them the world believes that this does not work.

Does not mean we need to play with them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CubeMan my comments were not aimed at keeping new people out. I too found my way to GTC by the books and a class. This site has a public area and menmbers only area. If some one has a real interest joining in the discussions would lead to members being a filter if you will. I for one would be willing to act as sponser for prospective students in my area. Not so much about ones skill but more about how one respects the game. Even a random player deserves respect when they have the dice. No late buy in, no late bets, and no hands in the layout ect.

The people that we all want to be part of GTC would be identified in a session or two at a table.
Once a prospect passes a members approval he are she could receive an invation from Frank and Dom to take a class and join the family. Many professional groups have a membership process. The goal is to insure a certain level conduct from the members.

All I ment was we are our own enemy when it comes to educating those that don’t belong here. The business of putting on classes is at direct conflict with developing a group of members who care about the game and take pride in conducting themselves properly at the tables.

I hope Frank and Dom do not take offense to these comments as both are great guys and have done a fantastic job. We just don’t have a filter in place so we should expect what we get from some who do not deserve to be GTC.

Hear is a thought.

Just let them be they make us look better than we are.

How many of you who follow the rules get treated better at your reagualer spot?

Know for the hard part take this attitude to the tables, LMAO

JRC, no offense taken at all. The idea has merit, but I don’t think it would work.

Tooter, During what I described I didn’t curse, but at one session when the stickman at the nod from the boxman, aimed for my dice while they were in the air … TWICE … and hit them … then yes, I couldn’t keep my Blue Aura and the street Dom came out!

This was one hell of a trip!

Dominator