posted by Hopping2

I hate to beat a subject to death but here I go again.

I do have a great admiration for those of you who are able to excel to the top of the performance curve but I am also a realist.

I read about the great performances of the GTC Meets and on individual reports from those who are willing to share their successful trips. Its truly awesome and inspiring!

I wonder if these reports along with my own recent isolated success at Tahoe only skew and mask the real picture for most workshop graduates.

I am hopeful that I too will someday ride a big wave to a 40 or 60 number roll as most who read these pages but has yet to sign in.

I also think that I may in the long run reside among the many who will have to grind out an existence on Three Hit Lagoons and tell the Dealer to take me down.

I wonder how most of us will really do in the long run?

I would be interested to hear your comments on this question.

It would really be interesting to hear from those who have been grinding away for a couple years at careful shooting and have yet to sign in and be heard.

Is anyone out there reading this foammy froth?

H2

billythekid responds

Ray,

Past students will have a great chance of winning in the long run IF they do what we teach in the classes.

Practice

Record practice rolls to know what their level is.

Practice

Make the best bets

Practice

Limit exposure to random rollers.

And finally PRACTICE.

There will be bankroll fluctuations, and losing sessions, BUT if the lessons are learned there is no reason not to be able to gain an advantage in craps.

You will meet some of my past students at the practice session tomorrow and we can discuss it with them.

Billy The Kid

Al Levine responds

Billy, you are right on. I’ve been shooting GTC style for approx. 18 months (I took the two days course in August, 2003) and I can say that with a lot of practice and confidence (not every roll is a home run) you can beat this game. You have to at least 5 count ALL chicken feeders and I know it’s tough to do. The way I can avoid them is to tell myself ‘would I rather bet $70 on a CFer or bet $70 on myself’.

Truthfully, I may go a few rolls with lousy results, but you’d better believe that my strong roll (15 minutes or more) will be coming soon. I’ve taken many a don’t players money. You must practice as often as possibe so that you can literally shoot with blindfolds on. The GTC classes teach you the form but, you and only you must reinforce it.

Dominator responds

Ray,

I have said it in a previous post and at every class, you come to our class as a gambler and we want you to leave as an advantage player. I truly believe that only 10 to 15 percent of the students become advantage players.

We tell the students to give us 6 months to play the game the way we teach you how to play the game, i.e.

1. Use the 5-count on random rollers
2. Bet half or less on these random rollers
3. Practice everyday
4. Never play out of position
5. If you don’t have a 401-G account, don’t play till you do
6. Change your old habits and become a winner

How many students out there have done this? It takes discipline to change from being a gambler to an advantage player, and I am sorry to say that not many have the discipline.

We know that most of the students that attend our class have the potential to be great shooters. They learn alot and after two days we as instructors can really see that they have the toss down. But you all must remember one thing, this game of craps is 20 percent physical and 80 percent mental!

The mental part or discipline is what will bring most good shooters down. Even some of our coaches have this problem every now and then. Our lecture on the GTC ACTION Plan is a small part of the class as most students want to know, and rightly, how to toss the dice. But this part of the course is what will make you from a loser to a winner!

There is nothing wrong with taking three rolls and then bringing down your bets to half and then going for it with a hit and press. IF you have the 401-G setup, this type of play will not effect you and will give you the opportunity to make money on your long rolls. You see if the 401-G is setup, then you are just playing the game like in practice and you are not betting your rent money.

I have said it before, most of you have what it takes to be a great shooter thru practice, but each of you should ask yourself the question, "Do you have what it takes to be an advantage player?"

Dominator

Seymore8s responds

H2
I can honestly say that I pondered the same thoughts my first year.

I would sometimes want to throw my dice out the window during practice, and shout like a two year old that this stuff doesn’t work. I don’t honestly expect that that I will be called up to the the majors for a few more years. I really like BTK’s advice that lots small wins add up to a big win at the end of the year. I find that I am enjoying more small wins from smart betting than monster rolls, although I have had a few, and damn, it felt good. I am satisfied for now, to enjoy many wins in the 25% to 35% of buy in range. Anything more than that would be unrealistic given my abilities at this point. But a win is a win, and 14 months into this thing, I am glad I took the course and rely on patience and practice to improve over the long run. I do recall Frank saying something like less than 10% of the people that took the course would stay with it and get really good. I hate it when people challenge me like that because I always feel compelled to prove that I am not a quitter – thanks Frank. Finally, when your throw is on – you’ll know it – and when the dice are bouncing all over the place, its time for a beer.

LBGShoota responds

H2,

You are probably correct in your assumption that "… in the long run," only a few will enjoy the fruits of dice mastery, total dice control & command at will.

While some will initially invest the time & money to learn about precision shooting, their lack of patience controls them. They are easily discouraged because they are not pleased with their progress. They either had high hopes of winning big or of becoming a skilled shooter in a short time period. This frustration leads them into doubt and eventually a lost of confidence in the concepts & principles of dice control. They seek a quick fix remedy BUT eventually they settle on either returning to their former style of randomness or just simply quit.

Then again, many like you & I who have been “bit by the craps bug” had a different agenda. The initial craps excitement & winnings we saw or experienced lured us at first into thinking it was a fun game where one can make lots of money. This misconception caused us to gamble & loose more. The strong negative expectancy of the game disproved our belief. Thank goodness that we had some smarts & so we looked for a way or method where we could win & not lose at the game. Whether it was through books, the Internet, or people, we were fortunate to obtain information & hope that there was a way we could win. Hence, we studied and learned more. In short, as part of our agenda, we joined, attended a class, “witnessed skilled dice mechanics,” & became part of an “exclusive support network of the Craps Frat.” Some of us are fortunate of having the opportunity of an extended support network by participating in regional groups. Many enjoy & use the network & “get together” often thus, perpetuating the craps fellowship.

Interesting enough, this same craps bug, I equate as an innate urge. This innate urge sparks an internal wildfire desire, which is compulsive and addicting. The desire is obsessed about becoming skilled (and eventually expert & master) at dice control. It’s overwhelming at first but eventually it succumbs to time. As we just continue to practice and practice and practice, we loose ourselves and before we know it-one, two and a few years have lapsed. We accept our development & it becomes just a, “press forward attitude” whereby we continue to work diligently at honing our dice skills in hopes that eventually we reap the rewards of a monster roll, after a monster of a roll, after a monster of a roll…

Personally, I don’t believe that time is a good guide to use as a measurement of dice skill development & progress. IMO, dice skills should be measured in “how quickly” you are able to set the dice, “how perfect or near perfect” you are able to grip the dice and “how perfect or near perfect” you are able to deliver the set & gripped dice! These are the fundamentals of “dice control” whether you are a beginner, skilled, expert, or master shooter. Paraphrasing Dom’s remarks, ask yourself, “… do you have what it takes to be an advantage craps shooter?” I’ve seen you shoot & I believe that you do have it – I’d say, take all the time you need!

lbgshoota

Steven R. responds

Frank was right about how easy it is to quit your practicing. This is not something that takes a few lessons and a few hours of practice.

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