I was guilty of 10 of the 11 throughout my craps playing career.

Great post! Everyone should read it.

NFF

Being up a little, and instead of taking a small win, deciding to shoot "just one more time". Going home with a loss instead.

Staying too long at the table.

Playing with an underfunded 401G.

Sorry Doc,

Never made any of those mistakes.

My first trip to a casino was on a cruise ship with a bunch of my friends with whom I was traveling. They loved playing craps and wanted me to join in playing with them. I had no idea how to play the game but went along with them to the casino to see what it was all about.

They had a lot of fun, shouting and yelling things that were incomprehensible to me at the time (give me a yo, I’ll bet the field, come on little joe, etc.). They told me to just do what they did and I could have a great time as well. BUT, I do not like betting on things when I don’t feel I have an advantage, much less understand. I watched them laugh and scream each night but I refused to put any of my money on the table until I had a complete understanding of what I was doing. I did not bet a single nickel that entire trip.

We all had a great time on the cruise and agreed to go on another one in about a year or so. I was determined to play craps on our next venture so when I got home I made it my mission to find out what craps was all about.

Being penurious when it comes to gambling I started by going to the library and getting every book they had on craps. I even found a few vhs tapes at the library I could borrow for free that had instructions on playing the game. But that wasn’t enough so I also bought about a dozen additional books or so on the game. I was interested in much more than learning the rules and how to play the game. I wanted to know how to play to win money.

I started to see a pattern developing among the "experts". They encouraged betting the pass/come with odds and/or place bets on the 6 and/or 8. Many had different ways to do this in order to limit one’s exposure. A few discussed hot/cold tables and making ones money while the table was hot and getting out when the table went cold. But my mathematical mind had a lot of problems with their "theories" about how to win. I understood the house had a positive advantage on every wager except for free odds which could only be made when one made a line wager that had a negative edge. So how could one possibly make money over time when each wager had a negative expectation?

Yes, one could win when a table is hot but there is no crystal ball that can predict a table becoming hot. So how does one vary ones betting to take advantage of this elusive golden opportunity when there is no mathematical way to predict its appearance? All the methods described for discovering this magical moment seemed to be based on some sort of voodoo magic to me.

But I wanted to join in the fun with my friends so for the next cruise I did choose one of the systems that I had practiced at home with make believe money. I did not have a lot of faith in my chances so I stuck to betting the table minimums. I did increase my bets when I was ahead on a roll but that was a rare event. In the end I lost a bit of money as I expected however I had a lot of fun being with the gang. Playing craps was very enjoyable, I was not ready to give up yet. When I got home I continued my quest to learn as much as I could about the game.

I bought several more books on craps hoping against hope that I could find something I had missed to help me find a way to beat this game now that I had the experience of playing the game for real in a casino. I was still new to the game and did not feel confident that I knew all there was to know about it yet.

In my new quest I came across a book called, "Beat the Craps out of the Casinos: How to Play Craps and Win! ". I scoffed at the arrogant title of the book but bought it nevertheless. How could any author claim to win at a game where the house had the advantage on every wager one makes? My curiosity was peaked, I had to find out what this jerk thought he knew that no one else did.

Then it happened. I read about the five count. The author explained how it could not make one a winner but it would limit one’s exposure to risk since it would reduce the number of players one would bet upon. This made sense to me. If one could expect to lose money in the long run by betting on players, if one bets on fewer players, one would lose less money. Unfortunately one would still expect to lose at the game albeit at a slower pace.

The author had an answer for this as well which also appealed to my way of thinking. Having majored in math and minored in physics, I appreciated the authors description of how one could use physics to turn a negative game into a positive mathematical advantage by limiting the 6 degrees of freedom random dice have when tossed to only 3 degrees of freedom with a controlled throw. This made sense to me but this author did not go into enough detail to satisfy my curiosity. He recommended another book by some engineer named Sharpshooter which explained the physics behind a controlled throw. I purchased "Get the Edge at Craps" by Sharpshooter. That book went into the detail I was looking for and satisfied me that it seemed plausible one could actually get an advantage at the game of craps.

Fortunately for me, there was a flyer in the first book that said "Golden Touch" was holding a class in Atlantic City that was teaching the technique of how to control the dice. I called the number in the flyer and signed up for the course. I took the class, met a great group of instructors and was convinced I had found a way to make it possible to actually win at the game of craps. I really appreciated the no nonsense approach of all the instructors. They admitted craps was a very difficult game to beat. I liked the fact that they did not sell a bunch of b.s. about some easy way to win buckets of money. They explained how it took a lot of discipline to learn a controlled throw, advised practicing for 6 months before attempting to play in a casino with this new found skill and strongly warned about making the best bets while avoiding the high risk wagers.

I bought a practice rig at the end of the class, saved money on the shipping since I could transport it home in the trunk of my car (trunks were much bigger when I took that class), went home and practiced what I learned and went back to GTC for another class when they were back in Atlantic City about 6 months later.

That is how it all began for me and the rest is history. Finding that flyer was the best thing that happened. It helped me avoid all the costly mistakes because it got me started on my craps journey with the right stuff.

These are great stories! Loved them all and I got to say, GTC is very fortunate to have Doc, Rose and Skinny!

Dom

Sevenout—we have made those mistakes ourselves and probably some others. Anybody want to add to the list?

Rose and Doc

What great reading. Been there, done that. Thanks for sharing. Still trying to work on it.

Since this is Sunday morning I must confess to breaking the rules last night at the Hillbilly Bouncy Bounce. Wanted action on a crowded table and forgot how to count to five. Shot box left corner down to box right corner with my right hand using proper GTC grip and toss landing just at bend. Same young lad-five year dealer used his skills like a good soldier sticking his chest out to obstruct while giving game instructions to dim witted patron on opposite corner. (Iv’e witnessed the box scolding a dealer recently for doing just this and not paying attention to the game.
(Good box people rule with authority and then you have the meek unprofessional who doesn’t know how to calculate the payout or keep people in line.)

And as if I didn’t commit enough sin for one night I returned to the table and took position 2 stick left throwing right handed using proper GTC to direction of ding bat dim witted who wanted to build towers with dollar chips in the landing zone.
Woke up this morning with the feeling that I had a really bad blind date last night. Had coffee and threw dice for one half hour with GTC discipline in mind. Looking forward to next table.

Thanks for sharing Alligator Rose, Dr Crapology, DoughBoy, Dominator, Skinney, Sevenout, NofieldFive, and future shares.

(Question: Why is there not an APP available to quickly calculate payouts?)

Excellent read from everyone. Thank you.

While I was at Annapolis during my 1st Class Year (landlubbers would say senior year), I took 3 buddies to Atlantic City, a recently made casino town. You see, during Vietnam you could gamble, legally drink alcohol, and die for your country all at age 18. I do not recall the name of the casino, I think there were 3 or so in 1977-78. We had no expectations, but wanted to round out our life experience with some James Bond type of high life. I remember bright lights, but nothing more.

Thirty years later, RollTide4Ever and I spent Thanksgiving at MGM Grand when the kids were grown and away. It’s an impressive place to start for visiting casinos. The table games required spending $5-$10 a pop, and I could see those games were for serious players (or people with serious problems). I stuck with slots, to get rich, of course. (And I’ll say this, every MLife casino I have visited were posh and very family friendly, and still are. That is not true for any other chain of casinos I have visited.) It was all very entertaining. With the entertainment and dining, we had a great time that vacation.

Then, 2 years before I retired from oil & gas, we went to another posh casino, this one in Louisiana. Since it’s more recent, I won’t mention casino names. Again, it was for entertainment. With my 30+ years in computer software, I was interested in toying with slot machines, the ones operated by software. RollTide4Ever walked around observing. Soon, she came back and said, “You’ve got to look into Craps. I just saw a guy walk away making $4000!” I gave her $100 and said, “Go see what you can make.” She didn’t last 15 minutes. She mimicked 2 other women at the table; she placed the same bets they did. She said she did ok, but then the ladies left. Knowing less than nothing, she quickly lost it all. I walked over and watched awhile, but, like Skinny, no way I was going to put my money down before I knew everything.

Of course I knew about BlackJack and card counting, but that game is such a grind. I only play to take a break, and I never play it seriously, it’s entertainment only for me – just ask Doc (he’s so serious about everything :ugeek: ). Doc refuses to sit at a BlackJack table I’m at, which I seldom do anyway.

I researched Craps, thoroughly. Very quickly, I found Dom’s Hollywood debut on “Breaking Vegas”. I then got the books to study his journey, going all the way back to the Sharpshooter’s book, and then through all of the GTC books. Then I purchased the GTC video (excellent resource, Dom. You guys need to make an updated version.) During this time, I visited several casinos, to try out hedging with statistics. (My undergraduate education was Physics and Political Science, so I’m to limited to linear math, as are Skinny and Dom.) With stastistical math, I didn’t lose money. But good grief, I had to put $600 on the table, starting out, just to make $20 in an hour – a waste of my time, requiring a lot of dealer instructions, and tiring with players constantly asking what I was doing, their saying, “I don’t understand.”

Six months into that year, I took my first GTC class, bought my GTC Throwing and Receiving Stations, and never looked back. What a difference. Knowledge and skill are a powerful combination.

Firth on Preacher. It is a long journey and you have to always stay focused. Thanks for your comments.

Rose and Doc

Just returned from day trip driving in a light snow with the sanding trucks working in 18*F, where moose wonder and men float logs down the river. Never too busy with the usual three players or less. Practiced my GTC stick left because half the table was open due to slow business and only having one dealer, a box and a stick. Very nice workers. My wife enjoyed herself on the machines with a nice return. My rolls were good with my small bank. I worked the COME BETS and focused on everything you all have brought to my attention. This is only the third time I have played here because of the drive but they appreciate the business and let me do my thing. I noticed the stick back away while I shot. Real folksy gesture I must say. Looking forward to our visit to Connecticut, Atlantic City and Vegas this season.

Thanks for sharing your Success and Mistakes.

Thanks Doc and Rose for reminding us what we were taught and the importance of using that knowledge. TheUsualSuspect, Semper Fi carry on

Great story doc. Years ago before I found GTC, I lost my pants to Gale, Martingale that is. 😀