For some reason was posted 2 xs Itry to not do this but sh happens some time . I also delite old posts if nobody makes comment to save space .You may want to do this .
Good Rolling. 😀 🙂

"Dr Crapology" wrote: Have seen a couple of posts on this web site concerning having money on box numbers and some of the crazy crapper bets at the same time. It seems that the folks who like to do this are saying combining these bets–the low house vig on pass line and come bets with the high edge bets brings the average bet down for the high edge bets. I humbly disagree.

The fact is that it does the opposite–it brings the low house edge bets such as PL and Come bet up making your average bet much higher.

Just my humble opinion. Rose and I still think you are better off just leaving the high edge bets alone. All comments pro and negative are welcome.

Doc

Your basic premise and conclusion is definitely correct. One should not be making high edge bets.

However when one combines a high house edge wager with a low house edge wager it does bring down the average house edge below that of the high house edge wager. But as you point out it raises the average house edge much higher for the low house edge bet.

The bigger problem is that you are making a second wager that is most likely going to lose, costing you money in the long run. So you are increasing the chance that you will lose money by making the high house edge wager.

For example, let’s look at what a random roller can expect to lose when he makes a $6 place bet on the 8 and $1 on any seven.

In 36 rolls the player can expect to win his place bet 5 times and lose it 6 times. He will have wagered a total of $66, winning $35 and losing $36 for a net loss of $1. House edge = 1/66 = 1.5%

In 36 rolls the player can expect to win his any seven bet 6 times and lose it 30 times. He will have wagered a total of $36, winning $24 and losing $30 for a net loss of $6. House edge = 6/36 = 16.67%.

Since he wagers a total of $102 in 36 rolls and loses a net of $7, the average house edge for the combined bets is 7/102 = 6.86%.

So by combing these 2 wagers he has lowered the house edge on the high house edge bet but increased it on the low house edge bet.

But as I said the bigger problem is his expected loss has increased from $1 if he only made a place bet to $7 by adding the high house edge wager. He has increased his expected loss by a factor of 7. This is a huge increase.

As Doc said,

you are better off just leaving the high edge bets alone

Skinny, as always you put the numbers together to prove that the math for combining bets with a high vig with a bet with a low edge is not a profitable way to go–it is a losing way.

Thanks you for taking the time to post this.

Doc

Every negative exception bet that one makes increases the total negative exception. The real bankroll killer is variance. The more bankroll you expose (i.e the more bets you make) the greater the swings in variance. If you are underfunded for a session, you go bust. It is as simple as that.

Vale,
Lou

"Loucifer" wrote: Every negative exception bet that one makes increases the total negative exception. The real bankroll killer is variance. The more bankroll you expose (i.e the more bets you make) the greater the swings in variance. If you are underfunded for a session, you go bust. It is as simple as that.

Vale,
Lou

That’s why we preach that the first step to winning more is learn to lose less. Lou, you have it right. Cut down on the variance and it becomes easier to lose less.
BTK

I wonder if you really would think this way how would you bet . If rolling do you not bet any numbers if your point is some thing other then a 6 or8 since the others are a higher risk ? Also do you only place the other number if your point is a 6 or 8 ?Or do you just make one come bet and not make any other bet till you win some . Since I have a small BR and just love to roll the bones I do limit my bets .Also try to find 5.00 tables . I do play WAY to long on tables tho .
I did do some thing last trip that I never have done before tho .I wanted one roll before leaving .So I went all out at least for me . I ended up 155.00 and was at the table for 10 min. more or less .The 4 and 10 were byes for 25 and had 25 on the 5 and 9 and 12 on the 6 with all the hard ways for 5.00 O THE STA for one each which did not make . I made money on hard ways and the 4 and 10 . Then my friend and I put up 20.00 each to put in a slot on the way out and each made 40.00 which put him ahead and myself down a little for the 3 days . Had a great time tho .
Good Rolling. 😀 🙂

What Billy said is exactly what I think and my betting strategy is based on that concept. Even though I make sure my bankroll can withstand any loss, I can not stand losing. I do not play to lose, I play to win money.

That is why when I was relatively new to controlled shooting and less skilled than I became, I played to minimize my losses, knowing the wins would come.

I would make a pass line wager with 2 come bets and full odds strictly. I would not spread out with additional bets until I had 4 collections. 4 collections would pay enough to fund 6 line bets with full odds. If I sevened out after 4 collections, I would have a profit equal to the amount I had on the table, ie. 3 line bets with full odds. I would use future collections to fund additional come bets to attempt to get all 6 numbers covered. I would use approximately 2/3 of the next 3 collections to fund an additional come bet with full odds. The 8th collection would be pure profit. So if I sevened out after 8 collections having 6 numbers covered, I would have a profit equal to the amount I had on the table (6 line bets with full odds) or double my initial amount at risk. The maximum I could lose would be if I had 3 bets up without any collections and sevened out. Then I would lose the maximum of 3 line bets with full odds.

My entire strategy was based on limiting my wagers until I had a profit, then I would put more money on the table from future winnings, not taking any money out of my rails. Once the profit went into the rails it stayed there. By limiting my wagers until I had a profit, I was also limiting my losses to an acceptable amount. By acceptable amount, I mean an amount that I could easily recoup with decent rolls in the future if I should have a loss on any given hand.

I did not place any numbers to get up on more numbers, I strictly used come bets. I never made a crazy crapper bet of any kind. In fact, over the course of my entire gaming career I have never made a 2, 3, 11, 12, any craps, any seven, hop bet of any kind, STA or any other exotic wager. I have made approximately 5 Fire Bets in my entire life. I have made a number of hard way bets but only after making a significant profit on the hand and noticing that I was throwing a significant amount of hardways when hitting the even numbers.

The only change I have made to my betting strategy now that I am a more skilled shooter is I do not wait for 4 collections to spread out with more come bets. I continue to make come bets until I have the entire table covered regardless of how many collections I have. I do this because I know I am now skilled enough to win enough to cover what I have on the table most of the time and when I don’t the money I make by covering more numbers when I have a decent hand more than makes up for those few times I don’t collect what I have on the table. But I will not put more money on the table until I have 8 collections. This is a necessary element to protect the bankroll.

Great stuff guys!

Dom