I too tip when throwing the dice. On a $5 table I put $6 on the line with and extra $1 next to it for of course a total of $7. And with any point I put my odds and then I put $2 odds for the dealers on any point.

However, if I’m low on chips I’ll just place $6 on the line and when I hit my point then thats when I place $1 for the dealers on the come out roll. So here I have to win a pass line bet prior to placing $1 for the dealers.

I place 6.00 on line with 1.00 next to it for dealers . Then when get a win add 1.00 for dealers odds .I do this till they reach Max. then take full pay and next hit start to add to my odds . I may rethink this .
I like to try and get the dealers in the game with this method .It seems to work .I see vary few players doing this most seem to like to bet the hard ways for them .
Good Rolling. 😀 🙂

The tipping issue is a very big deal to me and since it is I like to preach to players about it and also like to get them to think critically about the process.
I tip as many of you do, which is the way that we teach. I cap my line bet and put a dealer bet beside it, however I won’t give the dealers odds until the hand gets to be a big hand and I’ll explain why I do it this way.
How much is your edge? You must know this number because it’s so important since if you don’t know what your edge is then you can’t be certain how much you should bet in relationship to your bankroll.
OK enough of that. Lets say that you have a 1% edge. Believe it or not this is a big edge in a casino since they have only a 1% edge or less against a tough player. So what does that 1% mean? It means that for every $100 you bet you will win $1. If you have that 1% edge and you bet that $100 and you tip the dealers $2…..poof there goes your edge. This is one big reason that players need to know what their edge is.
Smartcraps tells me that I have a huge edge on the passline so that is where I put my dealer bets since this is where I can afford to give back some of my edge. If you don’t have the edge then tipping is something that you can control to protect your bankroll.
Lastly I will only tip if I believe that I will be getting something in return whether it is great service or possibly the benefit of the doubt in a situation that could benefit me. I will not tip rude or inattentive crews and if there is one crew member that is an ass I will only tip when that crew member is on break and I’ll let the others know that so that they will give that dealer heat for being a ass.
That’s it for me on tipping. I recommend that you do it, but within the boundaries of your edge and in situations that benefit you.

Glad you started a new thread, can Dom or someone move my recent post with responses to this thread.

Noah

All great comments. Tipping is important. However it appears to me that Wow Man may be tipping a little too much into his edge. At a table assuming 5 times odds or less, with a point of 6 or 8 with a pl bet of $1 for the dealer and $5 in odds you have bet a total of $6 for the dealer. If the bet for yourself is a $6 pl bet and $25 odds that is $31. When you add all of this together you have risked a total of $37. The $6 comes to about 16% of the money you have put at risk. And the dealer gets both the bet for and the win. Seems a little steep to me.

On the point of a 6 or 8 the method Doc uses is : I put $1 on top of my pl bet and an extra $5 in odds on top of my odds. The dealer gets the $1 win on the pass line bet and the only $1 of the $6 "extra" win on the $5 on top of my odds bet. I keep the extra $5 of the win. He wins a total of $2 dollars. HE gets the win only.

Not if I get in a big roll I may well place $6 for the dealer on the 6 and 8 with player control. He gets the win and I continue the $6 bets. And if he wins several bets he can sin some money. I will press those bets for him as well as the roll continues.

The way I bet the dealer gets only the wins, since I use player control, with me continuing to make the same bet for him. He can win a bunch of money in a long hand.

If the dealer gets both the bet I make for him plus the win, I have to go into my rack for more money to continue to bet for him and this can really eat into or completely erase any edge you might have.

Wow Man, love your posts on the GTC board. You always have excellent suggestions where others can chime him with his or her ideas.

Remember my (other any one else’s) ideas are not necessarily better or worse than anybody else’s, just different. So tip the way that is comfortable for you and within your bank roll.

Hopefully I have fully illustrated how you tip. My thoughts are to be careful and not over tip. One of the main things an advantage player needs to remember is to protect his/her bankroll. Hopefully a thread like this one with give you ideas to make you the advantage player you want to be.

Hope to see you soon in the casinos in 2017.

Doc

Thanks everyone for the feedback. All replies are food for thought.

Catch you later!

If it is all possible I would like hear from The Godess on her tipping technique. I remember when I took the refresher course someone mention The Godess being a big time george/georgette.

Doc you have me thinking . If I put one dollar on top of my 5.00 bet am I not really betting this for a future bet for the dealers ? Even tho if won it is a win for both of us but just not received till made again .Sort of like a come bet but not the same . 😀
Also this got me thinking about all those bets put on the hard ways for dealers and how they change are advantage in a BIG way .
Boy do I miss CILL and his charts .It would be nice to see a chart on how these bets would change are advantage if we have any .
I think I am going to change the way I bet for the dealers now that I see it better . I prefer to take less out of my rack and use wins to make dealer bets instead of going right up for them .I have always liked to add to their base bet with wins to get them in the game . It seems that when they are at max odds they are vary into a win by that time the roll has gone on for so time .
They do get a little upset when the 7 comes if they have been at max odds for a while tho .I usually stop adding to their bet at max .But have increased their base bet maybe 2 or 3 times in the past but mostly by mistake . I think they won one of those bets one time .
I had a dealer one time tell me after I 7nd out that I had to much in odds on the dealer bet and I told him that I was not worried that he would figure out the pay out . 😀 😀
He just smiled and gave me the dollars back .If it would have been a win I think or know that they would figure the pay for them .I don’t know if he had to give me the dollars that was a mistake back to me since it was not a bet for me or not . I think it was 2.00 and I just threw it in and told them it was a tip .
Some things happen when the pit boss is not there and some times I wonder . Some dealers talk more when the pit boss are gone .Just saying . 😀 😀
Good Rolling. 😀 😀 🙂

Being stupid, I keep it simple.
I’m a $5 passline/come better with varying odds.

I tip the dealer only when I’m the shooter:
$1 passline, and $1 odds no matter what the point is.

On a come-out win he gets $2.
If I make a point he gets $4 on a 6,8,5 or 9,
and $5 on a 4 or 10.

I regard a tip as a reward/incentive for good service which he/she needs.

I’ve switched from putting dealer bets up front on place bets to using winnings to cap them and keep them under my control so that they keep working. The only up front bet is 1 on top of my line and 1 for the crew to keep it relatively self-funding. I have a mental issue with putting odds behind my dealer bet so I never do it (which helps me not whittle away my edge). The only time I might put a crew bet up is if I throw a quarter in for a $12 6/8 working on come out and let them choose their poison. I get a lot of thank you’s even though I use winnings and put just the $3 out up front. That may still be too much to some, but I’ve gotten some really good decisions and tier ratings as a result.

FourTen asked about how I tip. In the beginning, I put $1 on top of my PL bet, and only when I was shooting. However, when we changed casinos, about 2 years ago, I decided to tip every time I had a PL bet to establish a relationship. You would be amazed how this got the dealers on our side. They quickly knew our names, they were extremely friendly, we were always greeted when we came to the table, and asked about returning when we took a break. (This is a relatively small casino, with only one table open in the early morning, when we usually play.)

In AC, on a long roll, I also put $1 on the points for the dealers, starting with the 6 & 8, and spreading to the other numbers if I am hitting them. In AC, the dealers get $2 for a $1 bet on the point numbers. This bet is really appreciated!

Goddess

I like the way you tip Goddess. I remember Dom saying in a class early last year that he always puts a white chip on top of his and one on the line for every PL bet. Lady Luck and I have been doing since mid-year any time we are on the PL even for random shooters (when we get on the PL after the 5-count as sometimes happens). You are correct that the dealers really appreciate it. They recognize us when we come in and are always pretty friendly. We really almost never get any heat from the suits even if we take a bit longer than the desired 7-10 seconds to throw.

I am sure, as has been discussed in other posts, that this has a definite effect on our edge as Skinny pointed out. However, the good will that we build I believe offsets the negative effect on the edge. We do the bets for dealers even when we are losing but don’t usually do odds unless we are winning. For odds, we typically don’t put odds behind 6 & 8 when they are the points but will put $2 in odds for 4,5, 9, and 10.

When I am shooting I give them 2 bucks every time I make the point.

If I am up on a randy I give them a buck here and there every time my place bet hits

I found out that at the casino I go to has a rule that they can not decide which bet is to be made . The player has to say were it goes our they JUST LOCK it up period .
Good Rolling. 😀 🙂

If I have a Pass Line (PL) bet, no matter who has the dice, I always have an extra dollar on top of my bet and a 2nd dollar next to my PL bet for the dealers. Of course, with the 5-count, there are more than a few times I never make it to the Pass Line. When my PL bet wins, I push 2 dollars to the dealer.

As to my edge, since I’m only making dealer bets on the Pass Line, my dealer bets are only made when I already have a House advantage with the 7/11. So my dealer bets have zero impact on my Player Advantage.

And, in most cases, I am the only one making regular tips for the dealers. The best benefit for me is I get higher points than I really earned based on my bets. I’ve come to enjoy having a no expense vacation when I go to my preferred casinos. No resort fees, either. All largely due to modest tips made when I have a clear House advantage.

In Colorado only 3 casinos of the ones near Denver offer player controlled bets for the dealers. I drop a $1 on the point and have them leave the bet up and drop the win. On all the other casinos that I play in
I just add a buck to the passline and hand it in when it wins. In Vegas at my favorite table they allow the dealers where to play the bet on 4,6,8 or 10, either on the number or the corresponding hardway

OMC.

I always put one dollar chip on my PL bet. On my recent AC trip, I also started putting a dollar chip next to my odds bet. In casino X, when I made the point, the dealer would take the two dollars from the odds bet and leave the original dollar odds bet. I would gave the dealer the one dollar PL bet. In casino W, the dealer would take all three dollars on the odds bet. Since I intended to give only a total of three dollars, I kept the PL dollar bet. I did not understand the different approaches. Is there any rule or regulation?

I think that there is no real rule except for that casino . It varies casino to casino . I may be wrong bet it seems that most of the time they make up their own rules or just use them to their liken .
When I roll I start out with a 6.00 pass line bet . When that wins I then take the one dollar and set a line bet for dealers . Nothing out of rack . Then as roll goes on I will add to the dealers odds . Not every roll it depends on if I have a hit or not and remember . If I make a mistake and add to much to their odds I just say that they will know how to pay themselves
Were I play mostly they do not let dealers pick bets any more . It may be a new rule or not but they lock it up if player does not say were it is to go . Also if dealer bet is on hard ways they may be off IF the player hard ways are off on come out .
They take down their hard way bet when wins and player would have to put it back up .
I was at a table one time were the player was making come bets and would always take the one dollar chips that he was paid and put the on a hard 10 . He told me that the night before he had that hard 10 up to 165.00 but did not hit it . He was on it for 35.00 when I hit it for a win for him .That is when he told me the story about the night before .
So on this site may know more about the written rules that are in your state . Or find out what they are .
Good Rolling. 😀 🙂

Phil,

When you put a bet on the side of your money like that it is understood to be a dealer bet. When a dealer bet hits, they are supposed to take both the bet and the pay out. So in this case casino X did the wrong thing and casino W handled it properly.

Usually when we make a bet for the dealers we would put an extra dollar on our PL and a dollar on the side. So if we are making a $5 PL we would put $6 on the PL and $1 on the side as a PL for the dealer. When it hits the dealer would pay us $6 for the PL, taking $2 for the dealers from the side $1 PL and $1 even money payout. We would leave the $6 PL bet, put $5 in the rails and put out another $1 PL bet for the dealers on the side from our original $6 payout. We are not putting out any money for the dealers from our rails, only using the extra $1 on top when it wins to replace the $1 PL bet for the dealers.

If they are giving the dealers 2-1 when you make the dealer bet an odds bet for them that is a much better deal. They should take $3 from the side $1 and $2 payout. But you will get $6 for your PL bet and you can use the extra $1 as odds for the dealers on the next point.

The other way to make a bet for the dealers is to tell them you control the bet. In that case they will only take the winnings from the bet and the dealer bet remains there for you to do with it what you will.

So for example when Finisher says they take down the hard ways bet when it wins that is the correct thing for them to do. But if instead you were to say, "$1 hard 6 for the dealers, I control the bet", they will only take the win when it hits and leave your $1 on the hard 6. They may even ask you what you want to do with the win amount because when you control the bet the entire thing is yours to do with as you will. If I want to leave the $1 up, I will tell them, "Same bet for the dealers". If you want to increase the bet you would say, "Make the dealer bet look like $10, I still control the bet" or you could say, "Make the dealer bet look like $5" and they will keep $5 for the dealers and leave $5 on the hard 6.

Not ALL casinos allow control bets .
Good Rolling.

If they don’t allow control bets, put the dealer bets on top of your bets. Then it is your money and your bet to do with as you please.

It is interesting how we decide to tip. Many of us want to be seen as generous at the tables and feel good about tipping. When I first heard Billy the Kid talk about his ideas on tipping I was kind of taken aback. Now, the longer I play and the more I understand about the game and the role that the dealers play in helping to provide an experience, the more likely I am to agree with Billy. Lately, I have seen so much disinterest shown by the dealers. They usually seem bored out of their minds and talking about how much longer till they go home or when their next break is. Many times this is carried on in a foreign language and the customer is kind of left to make his own fun. I have spent a lifetime in the service industry. Part of my job is to remind my employees who the customer is and what our role is in providing a satisfying experience. This is a constant process and I consider it to be part of my duties as an owner and manager. When I receive bad service in a restaurant or in a retail business, I never look at the employee but rather look to see who is managing the restaurant or business e.g., I blame poor management.
Unfortunately for the employee, my tipping is decided by what I experience. Poor service is tipped accordingly.
So, when I see half of the table has the point marked as 8 and the other half of the table is marked as a 4, I know nobody’s home. When I constantly have to correct a payout or a total lack of a payout, I tip accordingly. Attitude is also taken into account.
Anyway, I sure am glad when I walk up to a table and I see a well managed crew smiling and acting as though they realize they are part of my experience and not just there putting in their time till the next break. I’m even going to enjoy being generous. My two cents.

Dough Boy,

Well said. In addition to what you say, Rose and Doc have found over the years that if and when we tip, the service will improve making the whole experience enjoyed and entertaining.

I know that Tipping is the majority of a dealers income—perhaps the management of these million (Billion??) dollar casinos should take into consideration paying these guys and gals a decent wage–not minimum as required by law.

Our $.02 worth.

Rose and Doc

Well said DB. During our lecture on betting Billy and I will go back and forth on this – good cop – bad cop.

I can tell you though that the venue is important. In Vegas where I think you play most of the time, I agree that you are totally right. The dealers are not interested at all in the game. There is so much cross talk between them and not paying attention to the game. But what I have found is that if you go South and play – Tunica, Shreveport, or even the Bahamas tipping is important to the dealers and the dealers are very much into the game

dom

You’re right Dom. I only know Vegas, Reno and Tahoe. I have to start getting out more. I’ve never even been to the South or Atlantic City. Got to dust the flour off my shoes and start living. LOL>

I find this an interesting discussion and I do tip and that’s probably why even though I only get to Vegas about four times a year the dealers at the Trop remember me.

What I have always wondered is why no one that I have seen, ever has put the effect of your tipping as as to what amount you have to increase your SRR to make tipping at least a break even point for you.

I know that it depends what your tip amount is related to the bets you are makings, i.e. I think the percentage would be different if you were betting prop bets or pass line/come bets, say.
Noah

In my opinion, things started going down hill as far as customer service at the tables when the large companies started tip sharing between all of the dealers. Now the bad service dealer gets the same amount as the good service dealer. Why would either try to do better? Do you know if the dealers also tip share in Tunica or the other places you all named? Just curious.

"getagrip" wrote: In my opinion, things started going down hill as far as customer service at the tables when the large companies started tip sharing between all of the dealers. Now the bad service dealer gets the same amount as the good service dealer. Why would either try to do better? Do you know if the dealers also tip share in Tunica or the other places you all named? Just curious.

mmmmmm ….. ok it’s me ….. Nah, I am not going to say what I am thinking 😉

Dom

Nah, I am not going to say what I am thinking

Actually I wish you would, even when the blue aura comes out there are things to be learned from your thinkings

"ACPA" wrote: I find this an interesting discussion and I do tip and that’s probably why even though I only get to Vegas about four times a year the dealers at the Trop remember me.

What I have always wondered is why no one that I have seen, ever has put the effect of your tipping as as to what amount you have to increase your SRR to make tipping at least a break even point for you.

I know that it depends what your tip amount is related to the bets you are makings, i.e. I think the percentage would be different if you were betting prop bets or pass line/come bets, say.
Noah

I think Skinny had a post on this a couple of years ago but I can’t find it. I, too, tip always using Dom’s method of $1 on top of my line bet and $1 next to it. I don’t usually add odds, though unless I am winning pretty good. I would love to see how this changes our edge and what SRR we need to overcome.

Sklnny?

I just wished I would LOCK up my wins like the dealers do ALL the time . 😀 🙂 Just saying .
Good Rolling. 😀 🙂

Just remembered a time that I had little time to play but wanted to see what crew was like at this casino . It was down town in Vegas . I went up to table got a spot out of position which I was not worried about since I know that I was only going to roll one time and leave .
It was at the hook which I never roll from and it seemed like a long ,long wase to end of table .Well I put out a dollar for the dealers on hard 10 and right off the gate they started saying that I needed to hit the back wall with both dice . I tried my best but the dice did make it down to end with one hitting the wall . they said that I needed to hit both dice and I told them that I will try to if they give me the dice were I can reach them . Well my next throw they went all the way down the table and it was a hard 10 for a win for them but not me . They moved the dice to me but not in my reach .I told them that they were not playing vary GOOD . they looked like I was crazy .I told them that the deal was I would TRY to hit the back wall if they gave me the dice were I could reach them . They all laughed and said they will try harder too .
I threw the dice a few more times and hit the hard way for them one more time to give them a win and I lost 3.00 and left . Never have gone back but at the end they said that I should come back .
I thought that will never happen since they started off with a bad attitude for me being a new player that they had never seen before . I think that I would have thought about going back if they would have said some thing after my first roll but they started before I even got the dice . I think it was because I set the dice and was not slow doing it . I did give them a lot of shit since I know that I was not going to be back which was fun . I just wished that I would have made as much as they did on my roll . lol
Good Rolling.