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A great question from a student

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I get many questions emailed to me and I thought this one was a great one for a discussion on this board:

Hi Dom,

Thank you for opening this email and taking the time to read it. I greatly appreciate it. My name is Rocky. I live in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I am a very big fan. I read and watch everything I can find that pertains to you. I have purchased many books as well other items over the years. I haven’t got around to taking a class yet though. Mostly because I am a single parent raising my son by myself and money is tight at times. However, it is on my bucket list! Lol

I got into playing craps about a year ago after trying it randomly one night at the casino. I was burned out on BJ. Listening to the dealers and some random people at the table I lost $200 but had a great time. That’s when I went home got on the internet and found out about you. I started reading everything I could find and watching everything I could find on you. Here I am a year later with many many wins under my belt. So I want to thank you for everything you do. I really appreciate all your help and wisdom.

I normally buy in with $200 to $400 when I play. I play at $5 tables sometimes $10. I use a single unit pass line bet with two units for odds fallowed by single unit come bets with two units in odds. I aim to get three come bets up when I’m shooting. So $60 at risk for $5 pass line with $10 odds and three $5 come bets with $10 in odds on each. When other players are rolling I use the 5 count with a 5$ come bet. I try to get up on two numbers with single odds for $20 in play. I fallow your advice of betting only 25% of what you bet on yourself on random rollers.

I was reading an article the other day and it said you could buy back your flat bet on come bets when the point is hit and a 7 comes on the come out roll roll. I had never heard this before. Is this true? If so would this be a good idea to do since you don’t have to go threw the whole process of getting back up on a number? I have been told that come bets should be left working at all times. What’s your opinion on that?

When I am the shooter I use the all 7s set on the come out roll which normally produces at least one 7 on every come out roll if not a few. Once a point is established I switch to the hard way set 5-5 on top 3-3 towards me. I always get good rolls using the hard way set. I have had some really impressive rolls. When I do 7 out for some reason it always seams to be the 6-1 or 1-6 that comes up. I never see any of the other 7s. So I don’t have a double pitch problem. It seams like the dice double kiss or something. I can’t figure out why this happens. Is there something else I can try that might produce even better rolls?

When I am rolling I don’t seam to capitalize on my monstrous rolls like I should. I seam to get so wrapped up in the rolling that I’m not taking care of my bets correctly. I seam to basically collect and lose track of pressing. When I’m aggressive I get wiped out without making anything. What’s a good betting progression I can try?

Thank you,
Rocky

My answer:

Hi Rocky

Thanks for the kind words! Single parenting is hard today and I respect you for taking care of your kids

You asked many questions here and honestly, that is why we have a forum. If I took the time to answer every question that everyone ever sent to me, I wouldn’t have time to play craps :)) You seem to be a student of the game and you are doing so many things right. Think about joining our forum Thecrapsclub.com

With that said, I will answer 1 of your questions and it is something you should be thinking about every time you place a bet. First using come bets is the right way to go and I am glad you follow that advice. Next – never buy back the bet – the power of the come bet comes from when you first put it out because of the 7 or 11 being a winner. If you buy it back you lose that power.

Lastly, remember this for all bets, anything the casinos allows you to do when it comes from betting – like being able to buy back that come bet, or if you play the don’t to be able to take that don’t bet down and anything they are trying to sell you – that is what they talk about like trying to sell you hardways a and other bets – are bets YOU DON"T WANT TO MAKE. Think of it this way have you ever heard a dealer ask the table if they want a come bet? NEVER – why, because come bets carry the lowest house edge.

Thanks again!

Dom


Replies:

Posted by: Dr Crapology on December 19, 2016, 3:56 pm

Rocky, as Dom said, great questions. Most of our new students come to us with bad betting habits that are more often than not are hard to break. With what you are doing at the tables, a few tweaks and you will be good to go.

Like you and Dom, Alligator Rose and I use come betting almost exclusively.

I recently made a post concerning "buying back" a come bet after a come out 7. We never do this. Along with this is the question of "should you have your bets working on the come out roll?" The answer for us is a simple no. You roll that seven come out 7 and all your come bets are loss. This is a big shock to your ego, you lose your focus, your rhythm is killed, you still have the dice and chances are you may well roll a quick!!! We back off a little on the amount of our bets and watch a few rolls to make sure we are back on.

Congratulations on being the single parent that your are. Hope to see you in a class soon. Wish I could email this to you.

Doc

Posted by: brothelman on December 20, 2016, 11:32 pm

Never is a long time.

How about this scenario 20 times odds not 2?

payouts 6 or 8 5 dollar put with 100 dollar odds pays 125 place the 6 or 8 for 105 and the pay back is 119
5 or 9 155 147
4 0r 10 205 199
curios what do you think about the put bet at this level?

Posted by: Skinny on December 21, 2016, 3:07 am

"Skinny" wrote: [quote="Dr Crapology"]Seems I have read that a put bet can be an advantage if you can take enough odds–5 times odds or more seems to stick in our minds. Skinny, your thoughts.

Rose and Doc

A put bet can be an advantage depending on how much you can take in odds. Unfortunately it is not a simple answer because it depends on the number as well as the amount of odds you take.

But you do not need to memorize a bunch of numbers to figure out if it is a good bet or not. There is a simple way to determine if the put bet is a good bet.

Figure out which pays more, a put bet or a place bet. Then make whichever bet pays more.

For example, a put bet of $10 with $20 in odds on the 6 or 8 pays $34. But a place bet of $30 pays $35. In this case a place bet is better than the put bet.

But a put bet of $10 with $80 in odds on the 6 or 8 pays $106. A place bet of $90 pays $105. The put bet is the better bet.

Simple?

"Dr Crapology" wrote: Thanks ‘Skinny, you always put a difficult thing into easy to understand terms.

Doc

"Skinny" wrote: The question to be answered is whether to make a put bet vs. a place or buy bet.

The simple answer is to determine which one would pay you more. If they pay the same do the place or buy bet rather than a put bet because with the put bet your base bet is at risk on a future come out roll. If you roll a seven on a future come out you lose your base bet. Whereas a place or buy bet would not be affected by a come out seven.

For example, if you do a put bet of $5 with $50 in odds (10X) on the 4 or 10, it would pay $105. But a buy bet of $55 on the 4 or 10 would pay $110 less a $2 vig for $108. So make a buy bet instead of the put bet in that situation.

"Skinny" wrote: Yes, you are risking the base bet on future come out rolls with the put bet that you are not risking with the place bet. But if the payout is better and you are a good shooter it is probably worth the risk.

As a point of reference, I would not make the put bets right after throwing the seven on the come out roll which brought down all my numbers.

I would do it after I establish my point. There is no reason to have the base bet at risk with put bets until after the point is established just in case you throw another seven on the same come out roll. I would take the odds back and make the put bets I want to make after establishing the point.

Posted by: HardNine on December 21, 2016, 1:25 pm

My simple thought to see which is better is if you are at/over the 3x4x5x odds on your bets. That’s where the Come/Put with those odds = place bets. Of course the risk of loss of the base on a put on a COS without getting the benefit of the come out power of the 7 needs to be considered, yes?

Posted by: brothelman on December 21, 2016, 7:56 pm

I was curious about the buy back if you where using higher odds?

Isn’t a buy back basically the same as a put bet. all you are doing is replacing the flat part of the bet after a come out seven correct?

Posted by: ACPA on December 21, 2016, 9:54 pm

You hit it right on the head Brothelman.

Noah

Posted by: brothelman on December 21, 2016, 11:07 pm

So we have established in this post and others that a put bet can be better than a place with higher odds.

Now does that make a buy back a better bet with higher odds than a come bet; do you recommend the buy back if you are using higher odds?

Posted by: Finisher on December 24, 2016, 3:06 am

Rocky buys in for 200 so this will not matter unless he wins enough to handle the greater odds .I buy in for that also so never even think about the put bets .
Rocky needs to practice the way he wants to progress at a point were he has made his money back and not have to think about his bets .He is just starting on this journey so we need to start off with an easy betting way rather then which is better a put or a place .
Bman doc and others on this site can do these things . But when first starting we should give simple answers to new players that is my .01 worth .
I always say to those new here to go back and read ALL old posts to find a lot of good info .
Hope all have a great X mass and a good new year .
Good Rolling.

Posted by: brothelman on December 24, 2016, 7:20 am

They gave him simple answers.

I am curious for myself finisher, I do not know everything.

lmao

Posted by: Finisher on December 25, 2016, 6:15 pm

Just thought this was getting away from his questions sorry .The less a new student has to think about at the table the better I think .
I understand this is a journey and we are all learning .Even tho I have been rolling the bones for 40 yrs. I am still learning .I found a put post .
Good Rolling. 😀 😀

Posted by: Finisher on May 9, 2017, 7:55 pm

bump

Posted by: Finisher on May 9, 2017, 7:58 pm

Seven times Seven I found this may help ?
Good Rolling. 😀 😀