JawBones,

My only advice would be to not get too aggressive. You must break even or make a little profit on your average hands.
Overall, I like your plan of attack.

Personally, I do not like too much exposure on a random shooter unless the hand is huge. I will wait for 3 hits before putting more money out on a random shooter. And at that time I would increase the odds to at least 5X before adding an additional bet. Any additional bets would be after a couple more hits with 5X. At that time I would make 1 additional come bet with 5X odds.

Remember when you get to 5X odds, you have cut the house edge to .3%

I am glad you went back to the basics and worked on what we recommended in the video and advanced class. Toss the dice in your room prior to going to the tables. Get your grip feeling good and have the dice looking good in the air. At that time you will be ready to take on the casino.

Looking forward to hearing more about the trip.

NFF

Thanks NFF. I appreciate your input.

Here is Update #1. Got to Vegas at 9:00 AM. Too early to check in so we decided to play a bit at the casino we are staying in. Lost a little but had one good roll of 14 with 4 paydays (my betting style is in the original post in this thread). Ended up playing at 3 casinos for the day. Had a total of 10 sessions where I threw and a total of only 54 rolls. That’s an average of only 5.4 rolls per hand. That, my friends, is not going to get it done.

For the day, I won $5 (beats a loss, I suppose) but that was due to a $45 win in Video Poker and a black chip tip I got from a guy next to me who had $200 on the hard 6 and I hit it…TWICE!!! Didn’t do me any good because I don’t play them but the small video poker win and the nice tip kept me from losing.

It is profoundly frustrating to me that the guys I am here with had good roll after good roll, one of them a 37 and not a single one has been to GTC. I have had several courses and spent many hours in practice but fell on my face. I am not discouraged, but I really am frustrated.

I got a good night’s sleep, feel rested, and am ready to go. Today is a new day to slay the beast so stay tuned and I will give you the lowdown on today’s action.

Bottom line: I had a great time and my 401g grew by a whopping $5 but after the butt kicking I took last time in Vegas I’ll take any win I can get.

jb

JB—really love this thread. Look forward to seeing the report as you continue on your trip. Yes you will get much better as you work on what you learned in the Video and all level of classes. Those friends who are having the great rolls will continue to bet crazy and lose back all they have won. Maybe not this trip but certainly cumulative over future trips.

True story—several years ago went to a gambling destination with a good friend who plays craps strictly for the thrill of a single big hit that he can tell over and over for years. Certainly he likes to win but the thrill is all that counts.

Now for my story. The first day we played some craps and he was betting some hard ways and some guy (a chicken feeder) hit back to back hard fours that the friend was betting–he even had the hard 4 hopping on one of the hits. At the end of the day he was up $1200 and I has up about $300. He though he was the king of craps. We played for two more days and the bottom like is the fact that when we left to head home, he was down well over $1000 and and I was up about $1100. His theory is that if a particular bet–hard ways, hop bets, see a horn bet a horn, etc–is hitting why not bet them, what do you have to lose. He may look good in the short run but will lose his a** in the long run.

He is still a good friend and golf buddy, but I simply don’t go to the casinos with him.

So hang in there JB. Rose and Doc have been through these types of losing streaks from time to time. But the GTC ways always seems to come through. That’s way we have a 401G and bet within the limits it affords.

Hope to come to your area in the spring between classes. Our best regards to Mrs. Jaw Bones.

Doc

I look at that $5 win as a good sign.

Remember how much of a mental game this is. Could be you are thinking to much instead of just trusting your and the GTC throw. Relax and throw with an empty mind please. Throw as if you are in your practice hang out.

Your throw is just too good, but sometimes we just don’t have it. I will say this to you – this year has not been a very good year for me. My 401 G did not increase at all, and I am probably finished for the year as far as playing unless I see my East Coast friends once before the end of the year. So this happens to all of us. When I finally broke open this year, my good friend Matt 0 Sandman said to me – "There you go – You don’t SUCK any more!" made me laugh and from there my 401 increased not by a lot, but at least it will be a small winning year.

So throw with an empty mind. Don’t think at the tables. Just play your game and this trip will be OK

Dom

Thanks Doc and Dom. Here is a mid-day update. I have been to two casinos. I have had 8 hands with a total of 91 throws for an average of 11.375 throws per hand. I have had 18 paydays in those 91 throws which is an average of 1 payday per 5.05 throws and 2.25 paydays per hand.

Bottom line is my 401g is up $250 on the day with very conservative betting. Now back in room to rest a bit then watch some football (gotta watch my Louisville Cards!) and maybe a bit of Video Poker before hitting the tables again.

I have never lost belief in the throw but I did lose a bit of confidence in myself. Your suggestion to play with an empty mind, Dom, is a good one. I have been much better at it today than previously.

One last thing, in my first session this morning, I was down about $400 and then had a 29 hand with 9 paydays ending the session up $59 for a $459 turn around in one hand.

Trust the throw and just keep on playing. The good times will come.

I knew you would be back. Do as Dom says and you will be good to go. This craps game is about 85% between the ears.

Doc

Day 3 Update:

First the numbers. I played 5 sessions today with 15 hands. Total rolls was 99 with an average throw or roll per hand of 6.6 (that’s not too good). Total paydays was 17 with an average of 5.82 rolls per payday and 1.13 paydays per hand. I gave myself a D for performance on the day. Net P/L was a loss of $478 taking me negative for the trip.

That was the bad news. The good news was that I was joined by Bman and he was able to see a couple of issues with my backswing and hand position at release (both issues that we worked hard on in the Elite Video). It appears that I had a few issues creep back in that I thought I had worked hard on. Anyway, after Bman pointed it out, I reviewed my notes and did a bit of room practice and threw much better the rest of the day. The bulk of my losses were in the morning before my discussion with Bman. The rest of the day was much better but the damage was done early.

I have one more day and I am only down about $243 for the trip and this can be made up very quickly. I am also getting much better at recognizing the type of playing surface and making intra-hand adjustments to give me the best chance to do well.

The final installment and analysis will come after my final day tomorrow. Looking forward to reporting some good news and good results.

On another note, if you have not had a chance to meet and play with Bman you really need to make it a point to do so. He is a genuinely nice guy and really cares that we do well. He is a great shooter and a great example and I deeply appreciate him taking time to come to Vegas and play with my group and introduce us to hosts and give great pointers and assistance. Thanks Bman.

jb

Daryl told me he had a conversation with you about things. I hope you have headed his advice, because those things are the most important

Dom

Dom,

I was unable to get to the strip because of the group I am with. I did spent most of my time at the others we discussed.

I won’t post final numbers but the losses were curbed quite a bit today but I didn’t add any back to the 401g. It is a losing trip but nothing that my account can’t handle. My ego is suffering far more than my 401g.

I am committed and determined to be in that elusive 1% of those who succeed. This trip was a setback for sure but all it really does is make me want to work even harder to try to determine wtf is happening. I am going back to the Elite Video and watching for issues that I haven’t yet corrected.

I think for now I will stop smoking from the Craps pipe until I can figure out what is going on, correct it, and have a reasonable expectation of winning before I hit the tables again. This is probably it for 2016. I’ll lick my wounds, put a bit of salve on them and then get back to work.

Thanks for reading this trip report, sad though it was.

jb

So you where down 243 how much did you loose betting on your friends?

I use to do the common curiosities thing, but not now, you saw who I bet on?

How many good hands did I let go by just stand there and watch?

I had a great time eating and hanging with you guys for the evening your group has great chemistry.

When you decide it is time to win and not just play you will, but right now you are there to play and you have a great group to do it with when you put the 243 against the memories you are a huge winner, there is more to winning than the money.

Thanks Bman. I appreciate you coming out to hang out. My group really enjoyed meeting you.

Interestingly, I made more money on their rolls than I did my own. That’s not usually the case but it was on this trip. For totally random shooters, each one of them had at least one roll in the 30’s and several in the 20’s. One of them had a 44 hand. A 22 hand was the best I could muster. Clearly, a lot of practice and learning before I get it right. That’s probably way more frustrating than the losing part. I have worked so hard and it looked like they were the ones with the skill. That part eats a little bit at my gut. Oh well, back to the practice rig with your pointers and the videos of my Elite video training to see where I went wrong.

It was fun to play with you and watch you roll like a champ.

JB, I have seen your throw on several occasions. Your throw is excellent and the discipline I see with you and Mrs. JB cannot be better. Remember we are 300 hitters so that means that you may well not make money on 70% of your "turns as bat." BUT the 30% will more than make up for the 70%. Currently I am in a bit of a slump but GTC betting, the 5 count and our bankroll always keeps me in the game so that when the good roll comes I will be a long term winner. AS Dom says, "clear your head and the good rolls will come." A 22 roll is excellent.

I must agree that Bman is a lot of fun at the tables as well visiting before and after you play.

Keep up the good work. Rose and I look forward to seeing you in the casinos soon.

Doc

I understand about the group thing.

Lets do it in 2017!

Dom

Amen to that, Dom!