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    Fire /STA Thought

    Finisher Posted on
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    Well I hope Skinny can add some math to this other then . IT IS A BAD BET .
    I thought how much more the casino makes on a bet that seems better . ( sta ) compared to the fire .Was thinking after reading some posts .You are betting on both bets and into a good long roll . With control you are hitting the same numbers a lot so you are making money . 🙂 🙂 Then you get the idea that you could change your set to come up with that 2 or 12 that you need .So on your next come out roll you change your set to get it or them .Well what happens is you roll a 7 for a win but loose your STA BET JUST TO MAKE IT AGAIN WERE YOU DO NOT LOOSE YOUR FIRE BET .
    Come to think about it a little more are we not trying to roll box numbers with the avoidance of getting that 7 .The fire wants you to roll all the box numbers for a bigger payday .
    So I think in the long run the casino will make more money on the STA bet then with the Fire .It slows down the game more then the Fire if the 7 comes out on come outs .I just wonder how many times the casino will win that bet on come out 7s ? It seems to me that that alone will make a lot of money for the casinos .I don’t know about the rest of you bet I have had a few long rolls that have had come out 7s during them with out trying to do it .It just happens some times and I just think I got lucky that it happened on a come out roll .
    So if you are rolling and have a come out 7 do you re=bet it ? (STA )
    The more I think about this bet the more I think it will make the casino more money .
    Just think the casino slows down the game to take their winning on this bet and asks if you want to bet it but when you get the dice you are taking to long .
    You can re bet it right or am I wrong I have never paid much attention to it .
    Or is it like the Fire made before the start of roll and no other time ?
    Skinny what are the odds of having a come out 7 before winning this bet ?
    Or should I say what is the portability ?
    Welcome ALL comments .
    Good Rolling. 🙂 🙂

    Replies:

    Posted by: HardNine on March 26, 2016, 12:19 pm

    Finisher,
    Since my favorite casino has added the STA and playing at another nearby casino that has it, I’Ve thrown the full STA 4 times and partials more than that. Only for the most recent last weekend in AC was I on it as I’ve just started putting 1,1,1 on it. In general I will not re-bet as if you’re throwing errant 7’s, you’re not likely going to make it through the STA numbers.

    If you go back and read Berto’s thread, there are good arguments against betting the STA. My strongest argument is that if our shot is good, we shouldn’t be throwing the non-box numbers. A single die rolled over will give the occasional 3/11, but the 2/12 should be much ‘harder’, I had a 35 in which the only number missing was the 12, so it SHOULD require a long roll to hit the STA. I am absolutely against setting for the bet. If it comes, it comes as I’d rather pound the box and make that money on a pressed 6/8.

    Posted by: Eyez on March 27, 2016, 2:27 pm

    I do play it, even on others. But I only play a 1,1,1 or a 1,2,1 … depending on if the table is a regular table, or a crapless table. I may up my bet, if things are going good, and if there is enough reward coming from that bet, if not, I only do a minimum bet. Granted, I would say that I will put the crew up on a side, plus I try to keep them on the pass line.

    Now, I have started to play a couple other casino’s, and at these casinos, they do pay when you hit them, which will slow the game down. The casino’s I play at on a more regular basis, if you hit a side or hit them all, they only pay you when that dasterdly 7 shows it’s face, not when you hit it, so it actually doesn’t slow the middle of the game, unless you can throw the 7 after you have your point and are on the come out roll.

    I do agree with HN, in the fact that you should almost never get the 2 or 12, due to the dice staying on axis, and that is why I generally only play the minimal amount.

    Just what I do ….

    Posted by: Scooter on March 28, 2016, 2:27 am

    Everyone will agree both the Fire and the ATS bet are BAD. Which one is the longest odds is definitely the FIRE. Trying to get six points that pays 1000 to 1 is obvious. It take 12 rolls of the dice to get 6 points (least amount of throws). The ATS takes 10 rolls (least amount of throws).

    As HardNine pointed out you’ll occasionally get a 3/11 when one die skews. Like when that occurred during a recent shoot. I believe the skilled shooter hit 3-3-11-3 in the middle of their roll. As Eyez also pointed out the skilled shooter keeps the dice on axis. I’m sure the rubber pyramids also skew(randomize) the dice on a controlled shooter.

    Yes – these bets are BAD BETS and slow down the game. Stay away from these, they will drain your bank chasing them.

    Those chasing these bets don’t appear to get the concept of being an ADVANTAGED PLAYER.

    Scooter

    Posted by: BucksterK on April 13, 2016, 1:33 am

    This may be old news & already posted so if this is a rerun, my apologies. I’ve seen BOTH the Fire and the STA on a relatively new felt at a TR property in Atlantic City. Talk about a game slowdown and fast drain on your rack!! Now we’ve heard about the demise of the Fire Bet in Vegas due to the felt owner getting greedy & putting his price up 5X. So being the creative industry that craps is, another entrepreneur devised a new felt with both of those "bonus" bets and beat the greedy guy by offering his uniquely-featured felts to the casinos FREE for 6 months. Just like was highlighted in the above posts, while very tempting and do-able for the DI shooter, don’t waste your chips on the randies. Back Away from the Bonus Bets.

    Posted by: Finisher on April 13, 2016, 10:55 pm

    Boy talk about slow down in game . It was the THIRD DAY for this bet in Laughlin and they were still talking about HOW they needed to work it .
    Does the box person handle it ???? When box is busy who does it ? Rules rules and more rules .I told them that in a month things will be better .LOL
    went BACK 2 DAYS LATER AND THEY STILL WERE TALKING .
    When went there first day they said that they had not paid out on it yet . Well while I was playing they paid the small once and the tall 2 times . One of the talls was on my roll which I did not bet . But the lady that won got hooked on the bet .Some guy was betting 6 on the all and 2 on the small and tall with a lot of confusion at first .
    I asked when they were going to get the fire and they said their boss had a choice between the STA and the fire .
    I guess I have no glue as to what is going on as far as the felt thing goes . I thought you just have to design it and they will make it .
    THE CHIPS THAT THEY USE ARE TO BIG FOR WHEN THE TABLE IS FULL OF BETTERS THAT MAKE THIS KIND OF BET FOR ONE THING .
    The people that design these must not play the game .Some times I think they must think ALL crap players are 6 feet tall or better .
    I am not a math guy but I think the true advantage to this game is the come out 7 for the casino .It takes little time and they collect all the bets .Then they set the bet up again .Slows the game down .
    I needed the 6 for the all for that lady so she became my friend for awhile . 🙂 🙂
    Good Rolling. 🙂 🙂

    Posted by: Finisher on July 9, 2016, 6:19 am

    They only have this bet on one table .

    Posted by: RFink13 on July 9, 2016, 5:17 pm

    In my practice sessions I simulate taking a 2,1,2 STA bet. I’m not even close to breaking even on it, as expected. I’m getting to the point where I’ll go 40+ rolls without rolling a 2/12. Throw in my bad rolls and this bet is a disaster. I’m ahead on my simulated fire bets because I hit a fire six. That one bet will last me 1000 shooters, that’ll be a while. I’ve also hit a few fives and about two dozen fours. I prefer the fire over the STA any day of the week.

    Just my opinion.

    Posted by: Finisher on July 10, 2016, 4:57 pm

    I think if you only bet yourself it would last longer .

    Posted by: HardNine on July 11, 2016, 1:32 pm

    I’ve been running a test going on 2 months, and I’m the opposite, ahead on STA, behind on Fire. It did get me to stop betting the Fire, so that’s a good thing!

    Posted by: brothelman on July 11, 2016, 7:19 pm

    What about tracking your wins and losses at the table are you.

    Posted by: HardNine on July 11, 2016, 7:51 pm

    Trying to add that to my tracking, yes. Good point, though, practice is one thing, live play is quite another!

    Finisher
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