Yes, it does mean I would have to pay taxes on my winnings. And I can only deduct my losses to zero out any winnings I may have had.

As far as I’m concerned, if there is no paper trail and therefore no proof I actually had any winnings, the IRS can GPS (Go Pound Sand).

Just my 2 cents

Amen brother!

What sucks is that some states allow you to take loses and some don’t. IMHO that is what really sucks! So in a state where you can’t deduct loses —- lets say you got a W2G for $2000, but in the year you lost $4000 so you are negative $2000. In the state you can’t take the loss the $2000 W2G goes to the bottom line and you have increased your income by $2000 even though you were a loser!

I happen to live in one of those states. Now I don’t get a W2G at the tables but significant other does and this taxation really sucks. So as far as my winning are concerned, like 7Out said the IRS can go pound sand! 😈 😈

Dominator

Although Rose and Doc are over all winners–in the long run–we do have our share of losses. Should Rose get a GW2 (or what ever the IRS form is) when playing VP we report it along with any losses we might have.

If there is a paper trail we report it, if not we don’t.

Just wondering what happened to the idea that the IRS was going to require paper work on slot winnings of $600 instead of the current $1200. I know the casinos did not want the additional paper work with the lower amount. In our humble opinion the amount needed to receive an IRS form should be raised to $2000 for inflation.

Rose and Doc

You guys need to go to LostHorizons.com get the book and apply it.

Learn the rules of throwing dice and you will make a ton of money playing craps. Learn the rules and you will not pay Federal Income Taxes.

Make sure you read this first http://losthorizons.com/Documents/The16th.htm

pAPER WORK PAPER WORK i JUST HATE IT .
The last time I had a meet and greet with IRS they said that IF I kept better records I would have got more back .
Well I just don’t like keeping all those paper records .
If I do get a paper I file it and report it and subtract some of my losses .
You can get a shock and get the win loss statement from casino .
They are always in RED so way not US ?
Good Rolling . 🙂 🙂

I just took a glance at the Form W-2G my wife got from a casino.
I will be paying taxes on her winnings even though she was a net loser.

I think ACPA has to toe the IRS line since he is a cpa and will not take
a stand against paying taxes if he wants to stay in the business.

When I was much younger and applying for a driver’s license my dad’s attorney
signed my application and in doing so he asked me if I had known him for a number
of years (required by law) and I first answered ‘No’ since that was our first meeting,
but he kept asking and it finally sunk in my youthful and innocent brain that I should
be answering ‘Yes’.

I would also like to point out that the IRS taxes ALL income from whatever source derived unless specifically excluded.

Therefore, if you find $20 on a street corner, then that’s taxable too. 🙄

Good luck reporting that – 😀 😀 😀

Matt,

That whole "all income from whatever source derived" is from the 16th Amendment and refers to investment income rather than that directly earned — check the real meaning behind the 16th Amendment and the Brushabar case. Click the link http://losthorizons.com/Documents/The16th.htm and read the page.

The IRS would have you think otherwise. Google 7701 a go to the Cornell Law link that has the Code. 7701 is the statute entitled "Definitions"

Go down to 26 You discover that the term "trade or business" has a special meaning for the tax code and is not the usual dictionary definition. Unless you have a public office you do not have a trade or business as defined in the tax code. If you are concerned about the meaning of the word "includes" that is defined in 7701 c and has its own special meaning for the tax code.

Further, if you google 3401 a go to the Cornell Law link for 3401 then go down to 3401 c you discover that the term "employee" has its own special meaning — Someone who works for a State or any subentity of a State. Specifically not anyone who works for someone else.

If these definitions where not there the Federal Income Tax would violate the First Article of the US Constitution. It does not because it is not actually a capitation tax.

Therefore, if you find $20 on a street corner it is not derived from an investment and is not taxable despite what the so-called experts will tell you. If someone that is not a government agency sends you a W2 send a 4852 to correct it down to $0 Likewise with a 1099 that reports you had nonwage income, unless it was from carrying out the functions of a public office (see 701 (a) (26) )

Or, you can read this link, http://losthorizons.com/Documents/The16th.htm get the book, follow the directions and stop paying the not compulsory Federal Income Tax.

I can confirm that the IRS eventually stops bothering you when you stick to your guns and shove the law down their throats.

😯

You know they don’t have craps tables in prison, right JesJac?

edit: alternate take — Do you have the number for Wesley Snipes’ tax preparer? 😀

Wesley was ultimately convicted of forgeRyan because he forged hit company treasurer’s signature on the company tax form. 🙂

I’ll just leave this here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesley_Snipes#Income_tax_conviction

All I can tell you is that I follow the directions in the book Cracking the Code and the IRS leaves me alone.

Awright, I’m just giving you a hard time, but seriously: You realize that author did time for following his own advice? His appeal got thrown out, too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/29/magazine/29taxes-t.html

E: my philosophy is really that I like to pay what I owe. I get a lot of services out of the Federal government. My water is clean, food and drugs don’t kill me, there are roads to drive on, parks to hike in, planes don’t crash into each other, etc. etc. I don’t want to pay more than I owe, but I don’t mind doing my part.

Jerry Stickman has written a recent piece on whether cash back from Casino is income.

Basically, the conclusion is that the answer is unknown. Apparently some casinos issue Form 1099 if the cash back is large enough but the majority do not issue 1099s for it.

Noah

Rose and Doc pay their taxes on time and in full each and every year–even including some income not reported to the IRS through 1099’s.

But, and that is a big but, I hate the paper & work records that I must keep, and the fact that I have to pay someone several hundred dollars to prepare my return. The Federal Government is much to much in our lives. Example–assume we have some income from savings accounts of $100 and the interest rate is 3% (We wish in this day and time) that means the Feds know that Rose and Doc have $3333 in savings—which in my humble opinion is none of their damn business.

I do believe they need to know how much the American public is saving and how much the public has in savings–but not each individual. They need this to set the fiscal policy for the country.

Secondly, hundreds of millions of dollars (if not billions) of income is not being reported. To my way of thinking the solution is simply. A federal sales–or valued added tax which is the same thing–should be instituted to replace the income tax, FICA tax, medicare tax, etc. We pay as we go. No records kept, no dead lines to fine a return. Since all states have a sales tax the ability to collect the tax and prorate to the various levels of government is in place.

Is the sales tax regressive–I think not. When Michael Dell or Bill Gates purchases his fully loaded Mercedes or other high dollar car for over a $100,000 ($ even $250,000) they will pay much more tax than the average middle class person who buys a used Camry for $15 000.

For those who report little or no income they will be paying their fair share. I fully believe that every person who lives in the US should pay his fair to support the government. Many pay nothing for the privilege to live here and get a "tax credit" in return. How stupid is that.

As usual just a few comments from a frustrated guy who is currently working on his income tax.

Doc

Doc,

The Constitution of the US prohibits the type of taxes you are referring to changing toward.

Actually the First Article of the Constitution prohibits the tax people are now paying. They way they make it Constitutional is by changing the definitions of some words.

Think a 1099 reports income from a "trade or business read 7701 (a) (26):

26 U.S. Code § 7701 – Definitions

Current through Pub. L. 114-38. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)

(a) When used in this title, where not otherwise distinctly expressed or manifestly incompatible with the intent thereof—

(26) Trade or business
The term “trade or business” includes the performance of the functions of a public office.

To keep the Tax Code consistent with Article 1 (No capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken) it can only mean you are taxed if you perform a public office. Otherwise, it would be a direct tax that is not "… in proportion to the Census…

Think you are an "employee" check 3401 (c):
26 U.S. Code § 3401 – Definitions
(c) Employee
For purposes of this chapter, the term “employee” includes an officer, employee, or elected official of the United States, a State, or any political subdivision thereof, or the District of Columbia, or any agency or instrumentality of any one or more of the foregoing. The term “employee” also includes an officer of a corporation.

For those who think this was changed by the 16th Amendment, you are mistaken. The only way to change the Constitution would be a Constitutional Convention. The 16th just clarified that investment income is taxable even it goes through a privately owned vehicle. See the Pollack decision and the subsequent Brushaber decision. That is why it says "..from any sources derived" rather than just, "…from any sources."

For those interested check LostHorizons.com for those not willing to do a bit or work understanding and implementing, just pay.

OK, I’ll jump in, against my better judgement. I’m on board with others. Pay your FAIR share of taxes to pay for the things we get. For those who don’t want to pay their fair share, don’t use the services! Of course that is impossible, because the minute you step out of your house, well, actually just sitting in your house, you use services provided by the various government agencies. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there are a lot of issues with what’s done with the money, but that’s another discussion.

How about we fix the code so everyone does actually pay their fair share. Easy peasy!

This is only relevant to Federal tax which was specifically limited by the framers of the Constitution. Why? Specifically to prevent the type of intrusive federal government we have today.

There are no restrictions on the States unless it is in their State constitution.

Property taxes and the like are also local and regulated locally. That was and IS, even today, the point. Local government – generally good and unable to do much damage. Remote government – bad, not concerned enough or individually aware enough of local conditions to manage well. That has been perverted. Before WWll not many qualified top pay federal income tax. Roosevelt implies it was a patriotic duty to help the war effort. It was supposed to be a temporary measure but you know what happens when politicians get a hold of money…

Lets all focus on winning first and worry about the taxes if and when the try to tax us!

Midnight

"MIDNIGHT" wrote: Lets all focus on winning first and worry about the taxes if and when the try to tax us!

Midnight

Amen, brother!!! 😀

Hey Midnight,

Speaking of which, I just got back from a decent night doubling my buy in. Pissed about it though. Could not get a second roll going. I had 3x my buy in but threw back 1x trying to get a second roll. Worked it out at practice. Started placing my thumb too far left… sheesh what an idiot. Gotta keep that concentration…

On my now favorite table in the pit too Midnight.

Going north any time soon?
text me.

What about leaving after 1 hand if you tripled your buy in.

Take the money and run, then you will really be an advantage player and not a gambler.

Words to think about.

There are those of us who practice like hell and are too optimistic (from some viewpoints a euphemism for "stupid") to take the money and run.

On the other hand, it did take three rolls to loose back that amount and I should have quit after the first no go follow-up roll.

Thanks for the kick. Maybe if you smack me with a 2×4 when we are a bit closer the lesson might stick — if I did that on a regular basis I would be up a 5x for the year what I am now. I don’t know whether to kick myself, laugh or cry sometimes… I am having too much fun to think about it any other way. Annoying as hell when the wheels fall off though.

Well this is a tax thread …. but people have to stop trying to break the bank at every session! This is a slow grind people and 3X’s a buy in is TREMENDOUS!

Now I can understand one more turn … heck I do that …. but if that turns doesn’t have results LEAVE!

Dom

Skinny has written about realistic expectations in the past. We all want more lol.

To add to Dom’s post, if you feel you are ready to leave and others keep saying "no, stay one more round" you should quit for that session anyway. To our way of thinking it seems that you always lose some back during that one more time.

In our humble opinion.

Rose and Doc

I must admit I SAY, "One more." However… Even the dealers that know me roll their eyes.

I will endeavor to comply. God knows my wife will appreciate it… 🙂

By the way, as much as I am truthful about this, I am truthful about spending the money on refreshers and private tune-ups.
Read the bottom of Mr. Finesse’s posts: Remember: Practice makes it happen!!!!! HOWEVER, it needs to be GUIDED practice with good habits not just throwing the dice and hoping for the best.

If you cannot say what I am informing you of below, get to AC or wherever and get a Friday private tune up and whatever else is suggested by Dom or Finesse or the crew —

For those who do not know, I complained about being bored in Connecticut in the winter with nothing to do but go to the casino because I was tired of driving 3+ hours to ski and could not play golf with the snow. So, my wife took the winnings over the past year and bought a nice 3.5 acre property with a 2k sq ft house and large barn etc. outside of Charlotte with it. It was cash with only a $75k balance.

The good news, on average 15-20+ degrees warmer in winter so golf all year unless there is a wintertime blip– which they most certainly have. AND, summer is not that much warmer.

Of course Cherokee is 2:45 away so that doubles my drive. On the other hand, it is shorter to fly to Biloxi or Tunica than to Vegas but, believe it or not, about the same price.

Oh the compromises we make… 🙂

Jess,
Last Sunday I had a great roll at the 12 footer on the main floor. After I finished, I was ready to leave. However, there was only two other people at the table. So I waited until they both rolled the dice, not risking $1 on either of them. The boxman looked at me and said "Smart! I would wait also". I got the dice again and threw another monster. Cashed out and left for the day at 1:00. Sometimes, you need to know when to walk away. For good or for bad!

Midnight