Sounds like he is playing The Iron cross, or anything but 7. The field is a one roll bet, and having the 5,6 and 8 on during the come out he will win 83% of the time. However, when the Big Red shows and takes all bets off the table, he will find that it takes a lot of wins to get back to even, and if the Red shows up again he is further in the hole. But, that’s gambling.

Set44,

I think you misunderstood. If I am reading it right. They guy only played the come out with only the 2 bets. Pass line and Field. No more bets after that.

To answer your question. That is not a good plan for many reasons. It looks good at first glance but realize the math says the majority of the time 6,7,8 are the most likely numbers to appear the most. So you have a Push that comes the most, then you have a -5 with the most likely being a -10 cause math says 7 comes more often then the 6 or 8. Now any system can appear to be great in the short term, but the correct answer is always, what does the math say.

Besides all that, what boring way to play craps, man shoot me now. LOL. Seriously though, it’s horrible. The power of making money long term at craps is lowering the house edge, which in part can be done just by betting max odds on come bets and pass lines. The above systems takes that off the table. The other part of course is learning a controlled throw.

Looks like a losing proposition to us. In the long run you are "kinda" doing a hedge bet. All the bets have a negative long term expectation, losing you money. If there is an advantage it just might get you a little more time at the table because of the pushes, but you will lose.

To paraphrase the first President Bush—READ MY LIPS–"any betting strategy cannot and will not be a winning strategy in the long run." The casino knows this.

Rose and Doc

The advice above is sound and reasonable.

The main point is you are looking at it in the wrong way. This player is making two wagers with the casino and each wager has its own separate negative house advantage. You are trying to combine them in a way that makes it look like they offset each other enough to give you some sort of advantage over the house. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The house edge on the field bet that pays double on the 2 and triple on the 12 is -2.78%.

The house edge on the pass line wager is -1.41%.

Both of those negative edges are working against you when you make both of those bets.

You can expect to lose 2.78% of all the money you bet on the field and 1.41% of all the money you bet on the pass line. It does not matter how many times one wager offsets the other one, when you push, when you win both or lose both. In the long run you are going to lose the percentages I have given above.

By adding a field bet to a pass line wager you are increasing the amount of money you are going to lose at the table, not decreasing it by some magical way in which that field bet can provide more in winnings than losses when you lose your pass line wager.

The best way to minimize the amount of money you lose on random rollers is to not bet any money on them at all. Second best would be to use a way to qualify the shooter that allows you to wait until he has rolled the dice 10, 15 or 20 times before putting down a bet. Third best would be to use the 5-count to qualify the shooter.

But in all situations when betting on a random roller you should only make a single pass line or come bet for the table minimum and that is it. That wager is going to have a -1.41% house edge working against it. In the long run it will be a losing wager. But by making it as infrequently as possible you reduce the amount you lose on random roller by the greatest amount.

All other methods or systems that involve making additional wagers that have negative expectations are futile and losing propositions. Do not use them or waste your time considering them.

The only way to make money at the craps table is by developing a controlled throw, determine mathematically that you have a proven house advantage and make wagers that have a lower house edge than the advantage you have over the house.

Thank you everyone for your thoughts.
I thought it was a bad idea. I have had some trouble finding a table with controlled shooters and even when using the 5 count it seems that shortly after completing it the shooter will 7 out. When the dice complete a full rotation around the table and no shooters have completed the 5 count what do you suggest? "leave the table" It seems difficult to find a table where more than one or two shooters can be played. I have had dealers tell me that I need to either make a bet or leave the table. What is your answer when this question is asked?

"JimRy" wrote: Thank you everyone for your thoughts.
I thought it was a bad idea. I have had some trouble finding a table with controlled shooters and even when using the 5 count it seems that shortly after completing it the shooter will 7 out. When the dice complete a full rotation around the table and no shooters have completed the 5 count what do you suggest? "leave the table" It seems difficult to find a table where more than one or two shooters can be played. I have had dealers tell me that I need to either make a bet or leave the table. What is your answer when this question is asked?

This is a very good inquiry. The response can get rather complex and depends on a number of circumstances.

First, did you join the forum in conjunction with signing up for a class? No matter what the response to that question, I would wager the official Golden Touch advice would be to stop going to the casino and save your money until you have taken a class and practiced the method for 3-6 months. Instead of a fixed amount of time away from the casino after the class you could also substitute a statistically significant increase in your Seven to Rolls Ratio (SRR.) This is good solid advice. You can’t go wrong if you follow this advice.

One additional significant benefit to taking the class in my opinion is that it allows you to network. You meet like minded people. If you put in honest effort to improve your ability and show yourself to be a "good" player by following the 20 Commandments you will most likely be able to develop a group of people who will spend time with you at the tables.

In reality you may not want to stay away from the casino for the better part of year. So now I will provide some thoughts concerning your concerns you can implement now.

You will need to look at the bankroll you take to the casino as an entertainment expense. Instead of spending $100-200 going to a ball game you will take that money to the casino with the understanding that the money could all go away.

Do you have multiple casinos to choose from? If yes, when one casino does not have good table conditions go to a different casino. If no, you will need to cultivate a good relationship with the crew. You want them "on your side."

Are you going Friday and Saturday night when the casino is busy. If the place is packed and you are occupying a space and not betting, that could be why the are asking you to bet or leave. Try going to the casino when it is not as busy.

If no one is qualifying the 5 count the table must be pretty "cold." You could joke with the dealers. "I was thinking about betting, but I was afraid I would get frostbite."

When you shoot the dice make certain you are tipping the dealers through betting. Place an extra $1 chip on top of your passline. When you win that bet make a point of tossing in a $1 chip to the boxman saying "For the dealers." The vast majority of players do not tip the dealers. Tipping the dealers more often than not will get them to treat you better than the other folks at the table.

Instead of the 5-count you could use a 4 or 3 count and make a minimum bet Come bet.

Just a few thoughts. One person’s opinion.