The idiots can drive you crazy but they are part of the scene. And because they are "technically humans" and losing all kinds of money that makes it easier for us. We simply have to learn to over come these interruptions. When it happens we always set the dice down, re-focus as best we can, take our time and shoot the dice. What really gets me is when a person who has taken a course, who we know, buys in during a roll and doesn’t wait until the point is made where there is a break in the game. He must have slept during this part of the class

This skill needs to be practiced at home. How you ask? Example, from time to time either Rose or Doc will be practicing and the other will walk up or yell from another room "how’s it going? Doing any good?" Now normally this might upset us but frankly it relish it as it gives us the opportunity to practice our "refocusing" skill. We simply must learn how to do this. Other examples are the phone will ring, the TV gets turned on, etc.

In practice use these not as interruptions but opportunities. We don’t need to just practice our grip, throw and betting techniques ( which are most important) but other skills as well. They are all important.

Rose and Doc

P S—I have tried to get Rose to dress up as a waitress half dressed and ask (when I am rolling) if I need a drink, but no cooperation here!!! 😆 Just kidding.

The idiots are there, but I am also amazed at how many dealers do count out the chips for these players as well instead of saying ‘Dice are out".

I think it might be the casinos that want to get a much money on the tables as soon as the can.

Dom

The idiots are everywhere tis true. The place I have been playing recently in AC has been getting better about this lately. On my last trip I was in the middle of a great hand, had just thrown a boxcars and just as I was picking up the dice a player at the other end of the table threw a red chip into the table and yelled "give me the 12". The stick pushed his chip back to him and said " dice are out no bets". The player grumbled but not much else until I threw you guessed it boxcars. Then he had a few words for the stick. I wasn’t setting for that result and I even felt a little bad for him, Well not really but he didn’t make another late bet the rest of the time I was throwing. Tipping costs money but once in awhile it pays off. I live in Pa. but I don’t play there very often. The casino up in the old steel plant isn’t too bad but the casinos near the city draw too many idiots from the inner city. If I want a change of pace from AC I’ll go to Delaware or Conn. There is a Casino in Valley Forge that is very pleasant to play in. Small casino with very nice crews and very few morons.

Doc, touche! And I do turn the TV on at times, or my wife will yell over while she’s shopping online! 😆

Yes I practice but I’ve never seen this one and it really did a number on me that I wasn’t prepared to handle, but I should have been. I’ve thrown through some very loud tables, in fact during my primer on my Sat night 35, the base on my side was teaching someone the game while I was throwing, but with Steady and Luckycharm there, was able to overcome.

Dom, yeah, even the the tokes were in the stick was looking at the dice by that time and the base at the other end did squat.

Butcher, I find the dealers at the steel plant hot and cold as to their knowledge. There have been times when it was over 2 minutes between rolls because of their inability to payout the center action quickly to the point where the box told them every payout… .CRAZY

On a high note, today I hopped over to IN and opened a nickel table but played by 10 level odds and slaughtered the first hand with a 19 roll, 9 hit, 2 come out hit hand. Then, right after I told the dealers what had happened, some idiot at the other end did it again… though I wasn’t throwing. I stayed even with some good and bad CF action and a 15 roll hand that got spread too thin to break even.

On to practice for idiots!!! 😈

Happy rolling!

Very true Hard nine, The inept dealers are everywhere in Pa. since they opened up table games in the state. Lots of inexperienced dealers. I find that if I am patient and accept the fact that it’s going to get slow sometimes I find it playable. I tip them anyway and it has been getting better with time. It was terrible when table games first opened in 2008 or 9 but it’s getting better as they get more experience. 😎

This reminds me when I had just learned golf and had been playing about a year. One of our group (a long time golfer) yelled because he made a long putt. The guys on the next tee complained.

HIs answer was, "What the hell are you doing paying attention to anything but your ball?"

That, along with a friend telling me he had been at a tournament with Jack Nicklaus playing and found himself peeing in the bushes right next to Jack (this was in the 1980s) after Jack’s playing partner had just double bogied with his ball between two roots of a tree. He said to Jack, it was a shame what happened to (forgot the other golfer’s name) on that last hole.

He said Jack looked at him with a questioning face and said, "Oh, what happened?"

Between the two it was quite a lesson to me. The only thing I tend to notice is if someone’s chips are where I want to land the dice. When they are, last night for example, I nicely yell over (last night was loud there) and politely ask them to move the chips. Because I tip and teach others the $1 on the line $1 on their pass line bet for the next one, the stick reached all the way over and moved the dice for her.

Oh, that’s kind of a nice story. One day the guy next to me had forgotten to put his odds down. The dealer turns to the Box and says, "This guy always has odds down but missed because his wife came up. Can I give it to him?" It was $10 odds and the Box said, "Sure." I told the guy, "Say thank you. She just made you $15." He did. I said, "Now what you do is…" and explained. Though I only did it when I rolled, he did it on every hand and the dealers did well. Since that night I seem to get a large consideration from the dealers who know me even a bit.

I have done it with others since. If it is in your personality give it a shot.

I have already noticed so much consideration from that little, self funding tip. I do $1 base/$1 dealer on the line and $1 on top of my base come. On any session at home, I of course practice the same and my dealer tokes are usually between $50 and $80 but so much of it comes from the initial bets that keep giving. I even have had a stickman ask the gents next to me to slide over to give me room to throw after taking a bio break and leaving a cover on my chips. New folks had bought in and really filled up the table, but he got me an extra 1/2 position for breathing room. So little goes a long way.

Yes.

Oh, I should note that asking others to move their chips is a no-no on the 20. However, I make a big deal when the dice hit chips coming my way or going the other way and make 7 if it is before I shoot or after. I especially do it on my side when the dice are coming my way so by the time the dice get to me they just think it is a typical craps superstition with me.

"JesJac" wrote: Yes.

Oh, I should note that asking others to move their chips is a no-no on the 20. However, I make a big deal when the dice hit chips coming my way or going the other way and make 7 if it is before I shoot or after. I especially do it on my side when the dice are coming my way so by the time the dice get to me they just think it is a typical craps superstition with me.

Sorry, but I got to say something here. ……yes, this is a big NO NO!

I have heard of the superstition of hitting hands that are over the table, but not moving chips. We get enough looks from people at the table during our throwing that draws attention to us and then to asking someone at the other end of the table to move chips loud enough for them to hear is just something you or anyone DOES NOT want to do.

We all have to become target shooters I like to say, that is, someone that can put the dice where they have to put them. I have never asked anyone to move their chips for me when I am shooting. Now I will say that I have asked VERY DISCREETLY the person next to me on the hook to move their chips for one of my guys shooting from the other side, but only during a very long roll and if this person just came into the table and he or she put their passline down where my friend was shooting. I have even asked them to wait till the point is over before buying in during a very long roll. This happened actually on my last trip to Tunica while Sandman was having his 50+ roll hand. But honestly I do this very rarely. I expect my guys to be able to put the chips where they need to be and to avoid the land mines that happen during a long roll.

I have let instructors go from GTC who have done the "Move your chips" thing. I will not tolerate it from an instructor and really if I am at a table and I hear a student do that, I will never play at that table again with that student. That is how strongly I feel about this particular commandment. BTW, the other 2 commandments that get my dander up are taking to long to set and throw and arguing at the table.

Sorry Jes, but I have to make this point clear

Dom

Well, when I am wrong I am wrong.

Will not happen again. Damn, now that I think of it, both my 10K rolls were with chips right where I was throwing and I just successfully lofted the dice over the chips.

Just shows how stupid I can be at times.

I should tell people to put their chips there to make sure I loft the dice over the chips and get the correct angle. Just kidding on that. BUT, new perspective.

After saying that I am sort of glad you cannot reach through the computer to smack me in the back of the head — I deserve it for this one.

ROFL …..

Nah I wouldn’t smack upside the head Jes …. not someone that I like! 🙂

Dom

PS Glad you understand!

I must agree with Dom on this subject, asking some one to move their chips by the shooter. This is the greatest No NO when playing our game. If it is done when I am playing I will most likely leave the table and never play with that person again.

Damn, memorize the 20 Commandments and follow them for your own good.

This is what we mean by being a target shooter. If you are not good enough to place your dice in open spots to avoid hitting chips you should not be shooting because you are not GOOD enough. Practice is the only thing that will make this happen.

Thanks Dom. Hoping I don’t do anything to make you want to… 🙂

just a quick thought. Let’s assume you have a favorite spot to shoot to on a table. However just your luck someone puts their chips on that spot. Now as good a shooter as you are you now have to decide whether to shoot to the right or left of your spot. let us further assume the right side of your spot is also chip ridden so you must now shoot to the left of it. Now here is my thought, unless you can lean out further over the table won’t your dice come in at an angle and more than likely have one die hit before the other causing all kinds of headaches. Am I missing something here. So is the correct strategy not to play or take your chances throwing on the angle. I realize the angle may be small but it is still an angle. Is it possible to compensate for that angle with a grip or arm swing change. Any thoughs or is this just a figment of my imagination as I am prone to have. Professor

Some times when a roll gets long I think or really see that there are more chips in my way then there are spots for players . Like they mush be ALL standing side ways to have that many spots covered .
I practice with 4 players out there in front with a stack of 4 chips high as odds all the time .
AFTER I TOOK THE CLASS I SAID TO MYSELF THAT WITH OUT CHIPS OUT THERE IT IS NOT LIKE REAL PLAY SO HAVE ALWAYS PRACTICED THIS WAY .
On my last trip my wife came to the table and I said to her look at my landing spot . I told her that when I STARTED THE ROLL THERE WAS ONE BET OUT THERE . She said that I needed to forget about that and just relax and roll .It looked like 3 in. between each bet .
Plus the game had slowed so much . I threw 2 or 3 more then the 7 out .But it was fun while it lasted .
So I would suggest to practice with at least 4 players chips out there . My .01 worth .
Good Rolling. 🙂 🙂

Professor, I would like to know the answer to your question also. As I see it, keeping everything square is out the window when you introduce angles to the throw. I have thrown over chips with some success, but when I throw left of my spot from SL1, the dice start running. I don’t try right of my spot because then I would be throwing into the hook.

Good question!!!

Catch you later!

wow man, I wish our concerns here were not buried in a thread that does not directly address this situation. I feel the same as you and wish instructors would chime in on this topic. Maybe this needs to be put in as a topic in and of itself. Professor

"professor" wrote: just a quick thought. Let’s assume you have a favorite spot to shoot to on a table. However just your luck someone puts their chips on that spot. Now as good a shooter as you are you now have to decide whether to shoot to the right or left of your spot. let us further assume the right side of your spot is also chip ridden so you must now shoot to the left of it. Now here is my thought, unless you can lean out further over the table won’t your dice come in at an angle and more than likely have one die hit before the other causing all kinds of headaches. Am I missing something here. So is the correct strategy not to play or take your chances throwing on the angle. I realize the angle may be small but it is still an angle. Is it possible to compensate for that angle with a grip or arm swing change. Any thoughs or is this just a figment of my imagination as I am prone to have. Professor

Right about a new topic …..

Start a new topic with this question and I will chime in

Dominator

Practice is the only answer. We must practice by throwing into a mine field of chips.

I throw around them, over them and short of them. Here is how I did it years ago.
1) I got tired of picking up chips when I hit them, so I glued chips together so the stacks did not scatter when I hit them.
2) I practiced throwing into plastic buckets (remember the buckets for the coins from slots – or similar). I cut squares in the front to shoot the dice into, I cut holes in the bottom, turned them upside down and dropped the dice into the holes, I also practiced bouncing the dice over stacks of chips and into buckets with a square hole cut into the front of it. Lastly I had 2 bucked glued to a piece of wood with the inside edges touching and would practice dropping 1 in each bucket. Hundreds of hours practicing will accomplish this.

Yes Professor you must throw the dice on a slight angle. So you must also practice throwing the dice on an angle to see what you must do to compensate for the angle so they land flat. Dom nor I or any other instructor can tell you what to do, you must just experiment and figure it out for you self. Makes notes when you are practicing, I did this and that happened, no good. Lets try this and see if this works. Experimenting and experience is the answer.

Let me give you an example of what of all of this practice. This week I was in AC for 2 day’s, I stunk up the place but I did have 1 pretty good hand. This hand I was throwing into a ton of chips right from the first toss. When the dealer brings me the 5 dice to pick 2 out I look down to my landing area. A fellow on the hook has his pass line bet right where I want to drop my dice. So I look a little longer and think about what I want to do, so I decide to land my dice short of his pass line bet and bounce the dice over them. I set for a 7 and toss the dice on the low side and the toss was perfect, they bounce over his bet landing about 7 inches over his bet and hit the back wall dropping down on axis, 5-2. I proceed doing this and having a very nice hand, making money and then I cashed out. I did not want to fight the crowd any longer.

The only answer to your question is practice and experience. This is not easy as you know, practice and getting your toss fixed in class is what it is all about.

I do like the question and we should open this up as a new topic.

Wow, Mr Finesse!

Great ideas, examples and explanations!

Thanks! See you later—I have to go practice now! 😀

Thanks a buch Mr. Finesse. What you were doing with the buckets is phenomenal. I will try that. I was especially glad to see that you said to set the dice at a slight angle to compensate for I was trying that.It was working but never thought it would be GTC accepted so I tried other ways. Professor

The slight angle works for me, it may not work for any one else. That is why I say you must experiment in your practice and remember to go back to the set up we teach when you have an open area to throw into.

So, in Vegas this weekend for the seminar. Fantastic but more on that in another thread.

Related to this thread — Having a decent roll with a guy’s chips right in my line. Mostly dropping the dice over the chips and hitting numbers but occasionally hitting the chips. Funny thing was, almost every time I hit his chips I made my point.

Then one time when I looked up the chips were not there. The guy moved to his right. I put the dice down and told him to move back with his chips because every time I hit them I made a point. He said oh and moved back. Funny as heck. The Box guy just shook his head and checked the other table he was supervising…

Silly but true.

"JesJac" wrote: I put the dice down and told him to move back with his chips because every time I hit them I made a point.

I hope you meant that as tongue in cheek. If you wanted his chips there because they helped you focus on your target then that is fine. But if you really wanted them for the reason you gave, I find it disturbing.

When you hit his chips your throw became a random throw. You may have made your point but that was not due to skill or because you hit the chips. I hope it was not superstition that wanted to have the chips back in your line of throw.

What we do is a physical skill that is based on the science of physics and the mechanics of the throw. Men of science do not believe in superstitions.

I am not that nuts Skinny – I can already hear those who know me disagreeing – I wanted them there as my aiming point. Hitting then made me wince because it then became a random throw… as you stated.

Just got lucky with those rolls.

Great, that is what I thought. But I wanted to make the point in case others thought differently.

Absolutely.

When I saw your post I immediately realized it could be misunderstood that way.

Jesse, you are too much. 😀

Thanks…. I think? 🙂