I like it a lot Doc. You are covering what you have at risk and using the little profit left over to put money on the table. You only get hurt on short rolls but so does anyone else. You can not make money without risking money. When the roll extends you are in a good position to double dip early, make a nice profit on medium size rolls and hit them hard on long rolls.

I notice you said you go to 4 numbers before holding rather than 3.

I too found that holding at 3 numbers can cost me when I don’t get an early repeater. That is why I have stopped holding at all. I just come bet the entire time without worrying about the number of hits I have as I progress to covering the board. I find it is very rare for me to get up on 6 numbers and seven out without any hits at all. By come betting continuously I have a better chance at getting the hits I need to cover my spread.

Since I am come betting on every roll, you can see I am not concerned about putting a big spread out on the table. But I want to do it slowly, one number at a time. That is because I know my bad rolls tend to be very short. I won’t put out place bets after establishing my point for that very reason. It does not work for me. You said you place the 6 and 8 if you establish an outside number as your point. That would not work for me. I don’t want 3 numbers working after only 1 roll. I would rather take 3 rolls to get up on 3 numbers.

I find when I do get hurt it is because the roll is very short and then I am usually only up on a few numbers not 4, 5 or 6. By come betting the entire time every hit is and "off and on". I never have to reestablish a number because I held and one of my come bets came down. It works for me because I know my game and this is well suited to it. I do not recommend it for everyone, especially if you are not a very accomplished shooter with a good tolerance for risk.

Even though I am not sweating the money, when I get up on 6 numbers without a hit, I can not help but have a passing thought go through my head. In the beginning that was troublesome but now I am used to it. It does add an element of pressure but with experience it is fine.

Thanks Doc and Skinny for your posts. I always need more betting input.

Skinny, you answered one of my questions/problems. I never like the dead interval on a roll (except maybe at the beginning of a hand) when one Come get has hit but I didn’t have another one in the Come box ready to go to a box number. Seems like a wasted roll if I have to wait for another Come get to get set up. That is why I have been trying to do some work with Place to Come instead of Come to Place. I haven’t come up with a betting sequence that I like overall yet.

I have a question for both of you Doc and Skinny. When you are tossing do you ever work on the come out? Now, I know if you are not working and you happen to toss a 7 then you get your odds back and the casino scrapes your Come bets so on the surface that seems better or at least more conservative. I was just wondering if you have done any practice with "working on the come out roll" and found out it is worth taking the chance on the errant 7? Maybe you actually make more money then you lose over time by working on the come out when you are come betting? Any comments or ideas on that? Anyone besides Doc and Skinny are also welcome to reply. Thanks!

Good post Doc. and Skinnys reply eyeopening. But it may be a little aggressive for me. 😆

Getagrip,

I don’t usually work my come bets on a come out roll after I have made a point. I too hate the "dead" roll since the odds are not working and that is where you make your money. Another reason for not making the come bets on during a come out roll is that it brings attention to you and we need to stay under the radar. Act like a regular player and don’t call attention to yourself.

However I do make an exception from time to time. A good example: You have been rolling for a while have a few paydays in the rack. You are making a come out roll and say it goes to the 8. You immediately make the 8 and the bet you have in the come area goes to the 8. I will some times call JUST the 8 "on" but not any other come bets. I often throw a 3rd 8 for a payday. I just might be in a grove. If a 7 comes the pass line bet covers the loss of the base 8 come bet. You only lose your odds.

As an advantage I have a theory that your odds are never at risk in the long run. If you lose the odds occasionally "no big deal." At the very worst the odds bet is an even money bet even if all the other rollers are chicken feeders. Since we are advantage players the loss of odds is only a temporary against our 401g. We will get it back.

Doc

I don’t like to work my bets on a come out roll because the rhythm of the roll is disrupted after making a point. People get paid off and there is a lot of different things going on. I like to use that as a time to relax and refocus myself. The adrenaline can come down a bit and the pressure is off me. I may talk to the crew, relax and make jokes if I am in that type of mood. If not I may just stare at the pass line and try to keep my focus.

Usually I use it as a time to look at my rails, see what numbers I am hitting, see how I stand with my money on the roll and plan my attack from that point forward. I think about how I feel about the shot. Do I want to get more or less aggressive? What will I do if I throw a seven on the come out? What numbers do I want to place? I will assess what I have on the table and decide how much I want to put back up if my odds get knocked down with a seven on the come out.

Even though almost every move I make is automatic and on autopilot, I still can use this time to think and regroup without the pressure of worrying about the seven. I don’t have time to do that when I am in the point cycle. The dice are coming to me, I am making my moves quickly without thinking about them and focusing completely on my shot.

The come out roll gives me a chance to catch my breath and get ready for the next attack.

I would not be able to do that if I worked my bets on the come out.

If I throw a seven and get my odds back I will place/buy some numbers with the odds money I am getting back depending on how many hits I have at that point and what numbers I am hitting most frequently. If I have 0, 1 or 2 hits I will probably just put the odds money in my rails and start all over as if it is my first time with the dice. If I have 3, 4 or 5 hits I may place 2 or 3 numbers. I will keep some of the odds coming back and put it in the rails and use the rest for the place/buy bets. If I have 6 or more hits I will probably cover all 6 numbers with place/buy bets.

After that I will continue to come bet on every roll and use the winnings from the place/buy bets for my odds. I will then be double parked on the numbers I had placed/bought.

The one thing I won’t do is take money out of my rails to put on the table. I only use the odds money coming back to me and usually only a part of it. Yes I have lost my base bets on my come bets but I don’t worry about that because it is small in comparison to the rest of the money.

Great answers. I too play the big skinny in practice as well as the casino. Depending on how my shot is looking I will come bet and let it go till I hit. I was a little curious Doc that you led the six and eight with 70 dollars and then take it back down to 18. I love the 6 and 8 as well but I find that my tendency is not to take it back down if I hit on the place bets. I have found that unless I have an idea about where my tendencies are, I just stick with come bets with full odds and then a combo once I have 7-8 hits. As my SRR improves, I am willing to follow the come bets and not hold at 3 numbers till it hits. My 02. cents. Thanks for the good answers. I am gaining confidence and look forward to my Refresher.

Dough boy, I don’t take my 6 and 8 down to 18. I INCREASE my bet by $18 from $60 up to $78. If it hits a 2nd time I go to $90.

Using the 6 as an example, I start with $60 on the 6 when it hits I make $70 put $52 in the chip rail and increase my bet to $78.
When it hits a second time I have a payday of $81 and I increase my bet by $12 to $90 putting $69 in the chip rail.
I now have put$121 in the rail—$52+ $69 = $121. All of this on an original bet of only $60.
Should I hit it a 3rd time I make $105 and take the $90 bet to $120–an increase of $30. I put an additional $75 in the chip rail.
I now have the $121 already in the chip rail added by an additional $75 gives me $196 in the chip rail–still on an original bet of $60.

Remember all of this is during the 8 first paydays as indicated by the basic TBS. I want the increase during these paydays to be low so that I don’t take a big hickey should the roll be a short one. It may even give me a small profit–probably very small. So this is somewhat defensive in the short run.

After my 8 paydays on any of the box numbers I have covered, I then go to a press and pull increasing my bets.

Also remember you can do a similar thing with come bets where you have 10 or 20 times odds.

Hope that helps.

Doc

Thanks Doc, my mistake. Thanks

Love this thread.

One thing I didn’t understand Doc is how did you get money on the 4/10? BTW, it seems you two have gotten more aggressive 😀

Dominator

PS Sometimes I will work only 1 number on the comeout roll myself.

Dom, like all the other numbers I get money on the 4 and 10 by going through the come line and / or the pass line depending where I am in the cycle while I roll. Assuming 3, 4, 5 odds, after max odds I buy the 4 and 10 in addition to the come/pass line bet with the vig paid on wins only.

And yes I am a little more aggressive in my betting technique.

Guess I need to work on my writing skills as I thought I explained that but writing essays in school was never one of my best skills. My best skills were checking out the high school gals and basketball!!!!! 🙂

ROFL!

Yep, and I heard those stories from Rose … but I won’t repeat them on the forum! 😆 😆

Dom

Again, thanks Doc and Skinny for your thoughtful answers to my questions. Much appreciated!

Doc, I like your idea of working a "hero" number or two during a session that is producing repeaters. That is a really good intermediate alternative to the all or none approach of not working or working. Makes a lot of sense and I will work with it in practice to see how it comes out for me.

Skinny, very thoughtful and thorough answer. I think I got the answer I needed but didn’t even know I needed to ask! I am very relaxed during the Come Out cycle when I am Place betting and unconsciously check several of the things you mentioned that you do during that time. Even though I am setting for and trying to toss 7’s I am relaxed because if I don’t toss a 7 or 11 it is not the end of the world! When I am Come betting and it is the Come out cycle different story in my mind. I am not so relaxed and I am trying too hard NOT to toss a 7 instead of just relaxing and letting my shot flow. Somehow, I need to change my thinking and now that I see it I will work on it. Thanks!

GetaGrip ……..

Maybe to get rid of the anxiety of the comeout 7 when yo have comebets on the board is for you to increase your passline bet to cover most of the comebets. Remember you don’t have to use full odds if you establish a point. That passline bet when you comeout is a positive bet.

Using comebets is the way to go. I am almost 100% a come bettor on all my throws. I don’t do what I just said because ot doesn’t affect my thought process on the comeout. Actually when I have many comebets out on the layout and I throw a comeout 7 and those bets come down and I get my odds back, I actually think of it as a win because of all the money I am getting back and I just start over again.

Dominator

Thanks Dom!

Good idea on the increased pass line bet. All I need to do for a little while is "fool" my brain into forgetting about those Come Out tosses. Then the stress will permanently go away. While I would not want to have to use the increased pass line as a staple (rather use that money in odds of course) I think it might work to change my thinking in the short term. What I really need to do is wrap my brain around the odds coming back on a Come Out 7 as a win. Just seems like I went to all of the work to get those Come gets established and now they are off again and won’t pay and I didn’t get paid on the tosses it took to get them out there! Just need to then establish a point, put out a couple of place bets, forget about it, and put out another Come bet!

I know Come betting has to be the best way to bet as all of you smart Advantage players use them and I am working on it! Poco a poco! 🙂

Thanks for all of the help guys!

When I throw a seven on the come out roll I consider myself pretty lucky. I still have the dice and only lost some chump change in comparison to what it would have been if I threw that seven during the point cycle. Since the dice are coming to me and there is no rush to try to make a point I can take my time and decide what I want to do with the money coming back to me. I can wait for the dealer to give me all my odds, add up the total, check out what I have been hitting and decide how much I want to put back on the table. They will not rush me since I am in control of the dice and they know I am making a bet. There is no pressure to throw the dice because the other players are not anxious to have you make your point or a number since the puck is OFF and so are most of their bets. Let’s look at an example of what I mean.

You are at a 3-4-5X table. You have come bets on the 4, 6 and 8. Your point was 5 and you just made your point. You were betting $10 with max odds and had hit the 4 and 6 twice each, now making the 5 for your 5th hit. You have collected $350 thus far with your 5 hits.

After making your point you throw a seven on the come out. The dealer pays you $10 on your pass line bet, takes $40 from your base bets on the 4,5,6 and 8. Then he gives you back your odds ($30, 40, 50, 50) of $170 if you gave him the $40 to cover your 5 when you made your point from the last come that went to the 5.

You lost a net of $30 and have a net profit at this point of $320 plus $170 in odds. Why would you sweat the $30? If it were in the point cycle you would have lost another $170 and only have a net profit of $150. Instead you are looking at $490!

Back to business. I look at the $170 and see my 5 hits with two of them being on the 4 and 6. I want to put some money on those two numbers. I buy the 4 for $35 and place the 6 for $60. That way they both pay what a line bet with max odds pays. If a come bet goes to one of those numbers in the future I keep my place/buy bet up and use the $70 for odds and my next come bet. It funds the bet, leaves me a little profit and I am able to double park a number that I have been hitting on this roll. By putting $95 on the table I am still able to put an additional $75 in my rails for the time being. I have a decent profit and am in good condition to continue on a nice profitable roll should it extend a bit from here.

You have to analyze the big picture at times like these when you are calm and able to think about it rationally. During the heat of the moment it is upsetting and distracting. So you file those things away and figure them out later when you can make sense of it.

I hope that having seen how the seven on the come out has actually left you with a decent position you will not be so upset about it in the future.

I just thought of one more thing. It might be instructional to analyze how this situation works with TBS because it is a decent example of it.

At this point after 5 hits and putting back two numbers, I have $320 in profit in my rails with $95 on the table for a net profit at this point of $225. I am come betting on every roll at this point and if I establish each number in succession without another single hit I will put another $300 on the table for line bets and odds on all the numbers. I will also collect $140 when I throw a 4 and 6. It will cost me another $160 from my previous profit to cover the board and be double parked on two numbers.

If I throw all six numbers in order at this point I will have a net profit of $65, have the board covered with max odds and double parked on the 4 and 6. The least I can walk away with at this point is a $65 profit.

But as to TBS if it goes this way I still have only 5 hits. I don’t count the hits on the 4 and 6 because I have to use the money to fund the come bets. I am not ready to start double parking other numbers until I get to 8 hits. But should I throw a 4 or 6 after it is double parked I count that as a double hit and can decide if I want to use it as 2 hits going towards the 8 or wait for 3 single hits and count it as a one of a double that I start counting after the 8 single hits.

Let’s keep it simple and say I have 3 single hits after covering the board. That gives me a net profit of $275. That is almost equal to my initial amount at risk which would have been $300 for 6 numbers. Look at the good position you are in. You have a net profit of $275 that is locked up, you have the board covered and are already double parked on the 4 and 6. So how bad was it that you threw a seven on the come out roll?

From that point on I will use future single hits to double park my numbers and collect when I have a double hit. After 4 double hits, I start to put all the money from future double hits on the table by pressing my place/buy bets and call them, well I forget what I call them right now but that is how I handle it with TBS.

Now let’s compare that to where you would have been if you did not throw the seven on the come out roll. You would have just made your point of 5 and been up on the 4, 5, 6 and 8 for $210 on the table having put $350 in the rails with your 5 hits for a net profit of $140. Now say you establish the point of 9 and next throw a 10. That puts another $90 on the table. You have the board covered with 6 numbers and a net profit of $50 in your rails. But you are not double parked on any numbers yet.

Since we have different scenarios it is hard to compare them. But there are two points in time where they would be equal and we can analyze those.

Let’s look at where we are right after making the point.

When I throw a seven on the come out I have:
$225 in profit, $95 on the table and bets on the 4 and 6.

When I don’t throw a seven on the come out I have:
$140 in profit, $210 on the table and bets on the 4, 5, 6 and 8.

Now let’s look at both positions after I get the board covered.

When I threw a seven on the come out and got the board covered I have:
$275 in profit, $395 on the table, the board is covered and the 4 and 6 are double parked.

When I did not throw a seven on the come out and got the board covered I have:
$50 in profit, $300 on the table, the board is covered but no numbers are double parked yet.

You see it is all a matter of perspective. When you look at the big picture, how bad is it that you threw that seven on the come out roll? You lost a few bucks but it enabled you to put yourself in a position to make more money if the roll extends from there.

Let me know what you think now.

I love your analysis Skinny. So many times it is a matter of perspective. Doc, I have been placing the 6 and 8 in practice along with come betting but for me it is too aggressive at this time. I get nailed on shorter rolls and then I start chasing it. I think at this point I have to just stick with come betting. I sure have learned a lot from this post. Thanks guys.

Doughboy, I agree at the full amount, but depending on how the dice look, may put a $12 or $18 on the 6/8 that’ll at least help fund the odds if it hits as a come bet. If I’ve had a come out 7 and the 6/8 came down, I look at it that I can put the 60 up on each as it’s no worse than the throw before it.

Wow! I wish I had read this before my last trip to AC. I’ll probably read it a few more times and incorporate it into my practice before LV in a few weeks. Thanks for the great ideas guys. I have been using TBS for awhile. I usually have a come bet out on every roll. Second on and off on a number and I place it. I usually don’t get up on all six numbers but get double parked on two or three numbers. This thread has opened my eyes to more options on how to use TBS. Thanks guys.

We are always here to help the members of this board. Hope the ideas will indeed help you the next time you are in the casino. Look forward to seeing you in AC during the Oct Class.

Rose and Doc

Skinny,

VERY eye opening posts! I have 2 1/2 months until my next casino trip so I am going to concentrate solely on TBS in my practice casino sessions to see where it takes me. I will demo it against my current betting strategy hand for hand and see how I fare with each one. May even do a post in a month or so giving some of my results with this learning experience if any one is interested. Excellent breakdown by you and I thank you for that! I’ll be getting back to you in a few weeks.

"getagrip" wrote: Skinny,

VERY eye opening posts! I have 2 1/2 months until my next casino trip so I am going to concentrate solely on TBS in my practice casino sessions to see where it takes me. I will demo it against my current betting strategy hand for hand and see how I fare with each one. May even do a post in a month or so giving some of my results with this learning experience if any one is interested. Excellent breakdown by you and I thank you for that! I’ll be getting back to you in a few weeks.

A post with your breakdown would be very helpful to everyone GetaGrip!

Dominator

Hey Hardnine; Thanks for the suggestion. I think that is not a bad middle ground. My problem is in practice I will not be throwing any 6’s or 8’s but the dice decide they love the five and nine. I constantly run tests of the TBS and there will be days when I love the 6 and 8 and they love me. For right now, I am liking the slower approach, i.e. just the come bets with full odds. It seems that whenever I start chasing it is a quick downward slope. I sure got a lot out of this topic. Thanks to all of you. I feel very good about using the Big Skinny on the front lines now and it is pretty automatic. I can’t wait for Vegas.

Getagrip,

Think about this alternative. Hop the 7’s for $6, if you seven on the comeout use the win to replace the come bets. Most casinos here will allow that. On 3 numbers you will be up $6
from the pass line, still have your come bets in tact and go from there. If you like to set for 7’s then you will be more relaxed and still covered all around. If you are up on 5 numbers you increase the hops to $3 each and still be up $1. Depends on your 401G, I don’t like the increase on the pass line since it is a contract bet. Less flexibility.

OneMoonCircles

What a fantastic thread. I love TBS but also found that sometimes it was a bit slow in terms of covering the board. I have been experimenting with a shotgun tactic in practice that i was going to share on the board here for critiques and thoughts. Here it is:

I should preface this with the fact that in practice, my SRR hovers between 7.5 and 8. Im fairly good at 7 avoidance but not necessarily great with early repeaters. Oftentimes i would find myself stuck in a practice roll on 3 bets (1 pass 2 come) with no hits for 7-8 rolls before i finally hit one, because i was hitting other box numbers. But putting up another number (or two as the case may be) with full odds would be stretching myself beyond my betting comfort zone for one hand. Assuming a 10 dollar table with 5x odds, 3 bets with full odds is 180 in action. a fourth and fifth bet would stretch you to 240 and 300 respectively…

I instead have been employing a shotgun tactic for bets across the board to start. i establish a point, place full odds behind it, and then shotgun place/buy bets across the rest of the board for half the amount of max odds per bet (or half the amount of the odds you would be willing to play). so at a 10 dollar table with 5x odds, i would have 60 in action on my point, and 25 in action on each outside number and 30 on the six and eight. then i immediately start perpetual come betting. When a number hits, the winnings plus the original bet become my odds, plus my new come bet (in the case of the 4,6,8 and 10, with a little left over). In this manner, assuming the point is NOT 6 or 8, the most i have on the table is $195, only 15 dollars more than if i had 3 bets up with the big skinny. Additionally, on that fourth roll, If its not a hit, i would establish a 4th bet (which i woudnt do on the original TBS). and so on. If a 4/10 hits, 50 pay out, plus 25 original bet = full odds, plus new come bet, plus 15 in rail. 5 and 9 are break evens (25 original bet, 35 pay out for a total of 60….50 odds and new come bet) and 6 and 8 pay out full odds, new come bet and 5 dollars in the rail (30+35 =65 total….50 odds, 10 coming, 5 rails). As i said, for 7 avoidance roll that doesnt necessarily give a lot of early repeaters, this will get you across the board quick.

Are there cons to this? Absolutely….a point-SO hurts tremendously. a 2 count hurts tremendously. at a 3 count however, assuming you havent hit in the first 3 rolls, the money at play becomes equal to TBS (or maybe even slightly less depending on numbers hit and what you put back in your rails). Also, you are making bets that have higher house edges to start than GTC recommends…which is why i dont advocate this for people who have SRR’s below at least 7. I explained this concept to a colleague who shall remain nameless…they attempted it in the casino and literally got torn apart. They blasted me for it…when i asked them what their SRR was in practice, the response i got was "…..i dont know". if you dont know what your SRR is, DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS.

I have practiced with this betting strategy for 3-4 weeks now, and results have been very positive for me. I am across the board quicker, and in turn wind up with more hits in the shorter rolls than the big skinny. in two weeks time, ive turned $1000 dollars starting bank into roughly $7000 during my "casino practice sessions". I have not tried this live yet, and wanted thorough critique and analysis from you, my fellow GTC’ers….(i fully intend to duck as i already know Dom will try to take my head off….but im hoping for some numerical analysis from Skinny as well).

Cheers and Lengthy rolls,
Bigdaddy Revs

I have not tried this live yet, and wanted thorough critique and analysis from you, my fellow GTC’ers….(i fully intend to duck as i already know Dom will try to take my head off….but im hoping for some numerical analysis from Skinny as well).

ROFL ….. you knew it! I have a few problems with this …… First let me say again, on my rolls I am probably 85 to 90 % a come bettor all the time so you know where I am coming from … no pun intended. This is because of the house edge.

Placing th 5 and 9 and buying the 4 and 10 (except in Vegas and other venues where the vig is paid after it hits) is just plain crazy no matter when your SRR is. Not for anything but my SRR is greater than what has been stated and I won’t place the 5/9 or buy the 4/10 where the vig is up front.

Question: Would you put your money in a bank that pays 1% or 4% interest?

Dom

Doughboy,

I absolutely have those days too (more often than not but getting better), and in that case, I pull them down if they don’t hit, especially if I’m not throwing on axis and seeing issues. Play it by ear and if they don’t hit quick, pull ’em.

One Moon,

Are you suggesting a put bet when you lose the come base to a come out seven? What odds are you playing with on the come bet, Vegas 3.4, 5 or more.?

Noah

ACPA,

I suppose technically it could be called a put bet. Many come bettors knock down their base bets by accidentally rolling a 7 on the comeout. Getagrip likes to set for the 7 so why not hop 7’s and let that win keep the come bets up? If you are an advantage player why not use the power of the 7 to your advantage?

I can’t speak for Getagrip but I set for 7’s on the comeout all the time. I roll in practice sometimes over 50% 7’s on the comeout, hop them regularly and press. I have hit 5 in a row twice in the casino and 4, 3, 2 many times. Last night I hit many 7’s and once hit twice. After the point is established I go back to my normal set to make the point.

I am basically a place bettor. It takes a bigger bankroll to come bet. I have no fear of the 7 on the comeout. I also hedge bet ( I know that is not good) because it pisses me off when I throw a crap. Only $1 and that keeps me from losing my temper. If I do lose my temper I may as well call it a night.

Most of the tables I play on are 10x or 20x odds. That is not why I play there however. Remember, Colorado has a max bet of $100 on each bet whether it be odds, pass line or
place. You could triple park though. That is place, via the come or buy.

OMC

Warning: This is theoretical discussion and non intended for use at a live house! Now that the legal jargon is out of the way;

On BigDaddy-Revs’ variation, and at the risk of getting a slap upside the head by Dom in Shreveport, I’ve been toying with this at home. First, to those not in AC this March, I promised Dom I’d be a Come bettor for 6 months, and I’ve pretty much lived up to that well over 95% of the time. Yes it’s slow to get up there if your shots don’t settle into their groove until throw 4 and you’re hung up on numbers that aren’t hitting. I’ve been there and toy around with solutions, but The Big Rev (TBR) is intriguing. I was confused by the 240 or 300 at risk that BDR noted, so I laid it out in Excel for 3x4x5x odds and 5x odds and it never gets that much more at net risk than with TBS. Hopefully the picture shows up for comparison. I have laid it out for worst case on the TBR, which really stays at higher risk with pure 5x odds vs. a little recovery using 3x4x5x at least until you’re using house money. Chances are you’ll get a hit before this happens, but I wanted to compare and add some fuel to the fire.

Although there might be $300 on the table at risk, the NET RISK is what’s shown below. As BDR noted, you get absolutely clobbered on the early SO, which happens all too often. I am in no way ready to do this in the casino, as I was doing place/buy spreads before the refresher class and indeed getting slaughtered. My throw has very much improved and improves daily, but practice is practice and the house is the house. It’s very easy getting my $500 buy in to $2,000 at home, but when you head out into the real world, it’s just not that easy.

The Big Skinny has been working well for me, but I love this discussion. It is sometimes hard to take what looks like a no-brainer and apply the pure math as is drilled in at every chance. House edge is house edge. But then I say to myself, "self, who cares if I buy the 4 for $26 and get $50 vs. buying for $25 and get $49?" But that long run game kicks in and makes our reality show us why. 😮 AAAAAAH, MY BRAIN HURTS!!! 😮

OK, Dom, Finesse, Skinny, Others…. let it rip!

Oh, And I also noticed Doc’s increased aggressiveness (betting, not his demeanor)

Attached files

I am trying to understand what you are doing. I will look at it better over this weekend

Dom