Got a little Vegas trip report here. Mainly, I hope it is entertaining to read and that it might impart some useful information along the way.
Flew into Vegas the afternoon of July 30th, rented a car and was in the hotel by 3pm. I avoid Vegas on the weekends, because on weekends the tables are inevitably packed. I always rent a car, so I can visit anywhere along the strip or downtown. Cabs are expensive and slow. Forget the tram, because there is just too much walking. Walking is good for you as a health proposition, but you don’t want to show up at a table after walking in the Vegas heat for an hour.
I stayed at one of my favorites off strip, a place named after a big city in Brazil.
In the past, I have written about the fact that I seem to be too wired and uptight for decent play on my first visit to the table. That held true for this trip. I rested up a bit in the room, tossed a few on the bed and went down to the casino. I was a combination of nervous, pumped up and shaky. Basically, as I later told Griz, my shot looked like I had never taken a class. After three hands, I took a loss (not a big one, because I don’t let that happen) and crawled off to look through the shops and get my game together. Went back about an hour later, a little more settled down and presented my game considerably better but still took a little hit. The tables at that casino are excellent and there is zero heat and all of the people, including the bosses are great. Mentally, after that second attempt, I began to settle into the casino environment and felt more like I might soon be ready to play. If any of you are like me, you build up a lot of anticipation about getting to the casino and competing. When you finally get there, it can be almost overwhelming, like in childhood when Christmas morning finally came. You’ve been practicing with dedication, and suddenly, in the casino, real bullets are flying, and the adrenaline is high. So…one thing I’m learning, and maybe this is helpful, is that you’ve got to settle in. It will be different for each player. Much like a good starting pitcher in baseball, just don’t let them get to you early and then they can’t touch you later. Some shooters—I’m not one of them—are like relief pitchers. A little warm up in the bull pen and they are ready to face the hitters. I have to settle down and throw my good stuff. You have to figure out what works for you.
Later, I joined Griz and his wife and daughter for a nice dinner at Ferraro’s over by the Hard Rock and had a good meal and plenty of red wine. With a new, looser attitude, I drove back to my hotel and found a table with SL open and slid in. Mentally, I could feel that the initial pressure had worn off. Mentally, I was in a place where I could say ‘What the ‘F’. It’s only money. I’m going to have some fun’. In my humble opinion, if you’re not competing from that place, mentally, you are not ready to roll. I remembered something Griz’ wife had said at dinner. She’s not a controlled shooter, but when she plays, she plays for fun, and to heck with the pressure that we controlled shooters all try to put on ourselves. A lesson well taken. In spite of a nice buzz, on my first couple of turns with the dice, the throw was there. Relaxed but firm enough to get good alignment and backspin. I got into a little groove, dropping the cubes snugly just left of the corner where the back wall goes flat next to the hook. I knew I had game at that point, but I had yet to figure out which set of the dice was going to be my ‘go to’ set for the trip. Like a pitcher, you decide which set looks best—fastball, curve, slider. One of them is going to be your best pitch that game. 7’d out but felt good about things and decided to frolic with the CFs for a bit. I five counted a couple of shooters and suffered no harm. Then some guy got the rocks and got past the 5 count. I decided to play him for a small amount using 3 numbers and double odds. Dude kept hitting my numbers and brought me back to where I actually made a little money before leaving the table and going to bed. Gotta love luck, eh? More on that later.
Thursday morning, I hooked up with Griz before there were either chickens or chicken feeders awake. We tried the tables at the Brazilian hotel where I was staying. Both of our throws looked good, but we couldn’t draw any blood. I won a little money but nothing to be pumped up about. We drove to a place named after the capital of France, but couldn’t find an open table. We then tried a place I think is named after a famous casino in Monaco or somewhere (if any of you want real names and table conditions, email me off list). Full there too. I said adios to Griz, who had business to attend to, and I became a lone wolf, prowling the streets of Vegas, looking for a table to prey on. Completely new attitude from the previous evening.
I drove downtown, because there are several places there that routinely have excellent conditions. Stopped in at the first one (named after a big hotel in NY?) and took two turns with the dice. Only I and a CF were playing. Tables are less crowded downtown usually. First turn, the dice behaved well and I got a chance to see the bounce and figure out where the landing zone was and, after a dozen or so good looking shots, I 7d out with no harm done. The CF couldn’t beat the 5 count (despite some kind of joo joo magic he was doing with the dice before lofting them). The dice came back to ma, and I held them through a mid-teens/twenties roll. Made some decent money vs the risk on the layout and walked. You MUST walk when you win, or you will never win. It is like any investment. Know when you’re going to sell it; not just when you’re going to buy it! Have a reasonable expectation and walk when you get there. More is fine and so is a little less. For me, if I clear 50% of the risk I have on the layout in any one hand, I walk if that is the best I can do. So, for sake of argument, if I have $150 max on the layout, per hand, I’ll walk when the profit is getting over $70, regardless of which of the three hands generates the win. If I win 300% so much the better, but I don’t keep trying to get past 50% once I’ve 7d out and locked it. I know, too conservative for many of you, and that’s fine. I don’t often get my head handed to me though.
By the way, this trip my strategy was PL with full odds and 2 come bets with full odds. On the 4th hit, get the 3 naturals established with full odds and place the next best open number. At that point, when any natural hits, convert it to a place bet, rack the green and move the red to an open number until all the box is working. When any red hits, convert it to your green unit amount. ( I didn’t go in as high as I practiced for, but I went in heavier than I have in the past, so a little victory there in terms of getting comfortable with more $ on the layout ). I stuck to this come bet/convert after 3 hits strategy the whole way, and I really think I’m going to stick with it vs my old way of heavy 6/8 play. The safety of come betting allows you to be ready for the big run. Had I gone in that first night with heavy 6/8, I would have been facing a big hole downtown the next day. Early 7s don’t murder you with come bets, for the most part. Enough of that. This is a trip report not a betting discussion.
So, on to the next place, way down the mall past Binion’s (where I figuratively shot the finger and walked on by!). At the end of the block I hung a left and strolled over to what looks like an old frontier hotel and has a good pizza joint across from it. The place has been newly renovated and is a great place to play. It’s really great; in fact it might even be _ _ _ _ _! …. Like the canyon out west. Everywhere I play has 12 footers with nice hard surfaces. Showed up and I was the only shooter. Took the dice, rolled them about 10 times and 7’d out. I didn’t count my throws, because who cares when you’re alone. Can’t brag later with no witnesses! Just as I finished my roll, a couple of CFs showed up and bought in, giving me a chance to settle in and process what I’d learned about the table that first run. I really prefer not to play all alone at a table. The dice often come back too quickly for me to think through the conditions. On that table, I thought about it and reasoned that I needed to land the cubes off a moderate arc about 4” from the back wall. Next turn, I got into a groove and got the roll I was looking for. Held the dice for 40 or 45 minutes (according to the crew). Did not count, but by the end, everything across the box was very heavy multiple green and every hit was over $100, then up a $50/$60 unit. I was genuinely surprised…and pissed when the 7 finally showed. And, I had found the set for this trip. Earlier, I had noticed that I was double pitching to 5/2 and 4/3 with the HW set, so I rolled the hard ten toward me one click to show 5/3 on top and 4/5 facing my belly. When you’re double pitching, that set will give you nothing but box numbers. The 7 out roll was a single pitch 4/3. Too sweet on the axis but only after a lot of good numbers. More on sets later, especially as pertains to new players. Your throw determines the set; not the other way around.
As a funny aside regarding dice superstitions, from time to time during that long roll, I had been grousing about the fact that the drink girl had not brought me the bottled water I had ordered at the start of the roll. Right after the crew flagged her down, I sevened out. A CF came over to me and said something like “Damn, if you hadn’t finally gotten that water you wouldn’t have thrown that 7!” I smiled and shrugged and said “It lives in there dude. It’s going to come out sooner or later if you make enough noise!”
Anyway, never got a peep out of the bosses the whole time, and the dealers loved it. I was toking them by keeping a bet for them on top of my PL bet. By mid roll, I was covering several place bets for them too. They all agreed among themselves to take each dealer win and put it on some other bet rather than dropping it in the tip box. I had never seen that done before. Pretty democratic workplace! I warned the stick man that I wasn’t going to help them with C & E’s or HWs (not with the set I was using). They made their crazy plays anyway, and I don’t think I hit even one of their prop bets.
So, with that roll completed, the ‘reasonable’ goal of the trip had been achieved as far as I was concerned. Like a football team with a big lead, I played prevent defense for the rest of the trip. By prevent defense, I mean no more than three turns with the dice at any table. That is my rule all the time, anyway. Prevent D is a $5 PL and 2 come bet naturals with no more than double odds. If you catch another big roll (which I didn’t) no crying over spilled milk. Worst case, your stack will just get a little fatter! If you don’t catch any other biggies, you leave Vegas heavy, which I did. MONEY MANAGEMENT. Dice control will help you win, but you have to figure out how to keep it. Money management is almost as important as dice control itself.
Next, I tried the casino, I guess named after a liberated mountain, where I had a monster roll the previous trip, and took a little money from them but nothing worth posting. I was starting to get tired, so I drove back to the hotel and took a nap.
After my nap, I went down to Counts Kustoms and finally got the tattoo I’ve been talking about getting forever. My first tattoo. Must be some kind of late life crisis thing!
That evening, with my new ‘tat’ hidden under my shirt sleeve, I had a nice dinner alone. No, a beautiful women did not come up to me to ask if I was the high roller from downtown earlier!
I passed by the crowded tables on the way to my room and watched the action for a minute, but did not play.
The next morning, I caught my flight back to San Antonio. I had to check my cash in a separate bag, because there was so much of it! That last sentence was a joke, in case you were wondering, but my wallet was fatter than when I left. It is always a pleasure to shoot some more juice into the 401G when you get home. It was a fun trip, and I think Bossier City is next, sometime in late August if there isn’t too much resistance from the boss. The casino I play at there goes up to 100x odds, so come betting should be the way to go.
So, I hope this trip report was at least entertaining, and I definitely don’t want anyone to take it as ‘look how great I am’. Had I lost, and I have done that, I would have reported ignominious defeat in similar fashion. In fact I did that from Bossier City a while back.
In terms of observations I can make, especially for newbies, I will say that I always learn something new when I play.
Here are a few thoughts:
• If you’re going to play on the first day, ease into the flow. The craps atmosphere is something you have to get used to. Play your hard core game when your mind is ready. Be in a state of mind where you know you’ve got your A game but are willing to accept what happens, win or lose.
• Solidify your betting strategy so you employ it on auto pilot. You don’t need any uncertainty plaguing you while you’re throwing. You don’t need to be standing there trying to figure out what happens next with a particular number.
• Know which set of the dice is performing ¬for the trip you are on. Once you establish that you have control, figure out what sets do and don’t work for your game. The set is not the solution to bad mechanics. According to GTC gospel, there are only a few, but I can tell you from experience that there are more. CAUTION: Don’t be playing with hybrid sets that you haven’t tested with at least 2500 rolls in which you have measured average rolls per hand, hands with 15+ rolls, standard SRR and propensity of the set to hit box numbers and which ones it hits significantly more often than random. And, I also suggest logging which sets win money. There are some sets that roll numbers but don’t seem to make money. You can’t make money on a game where crap numbers are too frequently mixed in. Every roll that is not a box number is a wasted roll. When all the factors correlate positively, you have a workable dice set. This means LOTS of dice rolling BTW! Stick with the HW until you know for sure what you’ve got with it.
• Know your game. From tens of thousands of rolls, especially logging hands of 15 plus, I know about how often I can expect a big roll. For me, 15 rolls is about the place where I’m making money if I’m betting smart. When I get a big roll in real play, my personal math stats tell me something—I’m not likely to get another one during the current trip. That doesn’t sound real positive, but as Skinny always mentions, the math doesn’t lie. Know your own math and use it to your advantage.
• As with any sport, realize you have to have luck. You can’t take all the blame and you can’t take all the credit. During this trip, I threw a couple of beautiful shots that died an inch from each other at the back wall and were 4/3s or 5/2s. And, more than a couple got away from me but made a number other than 7. That, by the way, in my opinion, is how luck affects a controlled shooter. When your shot is really clean, you probably won’t make a 7 (you might, but chances are you won’t). When your shot is off, and, because of luck, you don’t make a 7, get your head back in the game and roll better. Every time you don’t make a 7, you have a chance to keep your roll alive by concentrating and making box numbers. This kind of use of luck results in long rolls for controlled shooters.
Hope this trip report was both encouraging and fun to read. If even one thing in here makes one of you a better player, then it has been worth the time spent writing it. I strongly subscribe to the adage that “A wise man learns from the mistakes [and maybe from the good experiences] of others; a fool, only from his own”.
Keep On Rollin’
Alamo
Replies:
Posted by: Skinny on August 2, 2014, 5:42 pm
Yes, doing your homework and being prepared is one of the keys to success. You put in a lot of practice both physically, mentally and emotionally before this trip and it paid off for you. Job well done.
Posted by: The Griz on August 2, 2014, 5:49 pm
Was I right about that table? 😎
Let’s plan on that late Fall/Winter return and smack them as a group!
The Griz needs to roam unabated (ie no work getting in the way!)
My part of the trip this past week is inconsequential, mostly work, when I did play it was just some hitting &running in the am hours. Played a bit on tables and casinos I don’t normally play, so kept conservative betting, 401G still in one piece to fight another day. Had quite a few mid teen rolls, very few short ones, will adjust betting to better-capitalize on that length of rolls. Left one hanging on that darned ATS feature twice, had the crew up on it and they were having fun rooting for that YO to show!
Posted by: The Breeze on August 2, 2014, 11:06 pm
Posted by: Chuckman on August 3, 2014, 4:06 am
Thank you for sharing.
Posted by: Finisher on August 3, 2014, 4:38 am
Posted by: Big Daddy Guy on August 3, 2014, 1:02 pm
Feel free to join us.
Posted by: AlamoTx on August 3, 2014, 4:10 pm
Skinny: Thanks for pulling for me. I confess I did not go into the pool as deep as I wanted, but I went deeper than I had been before. I would have seriously pounded them had I been in there with bigger units. On the other hand, I got some good experience and came home with some treasure! I figure confidence sometimes takes time. Once I’ve convinced myself that the damage can be controlled at higher levels, I’ll be comfortable there.
Re adjusting the dice set: I’ve recorded a bunch of statistical data on different dice sets and have concluded that some will be hot at some times and some at others. The throw is always dynamic. Some sets have been completely eliminated because they sport SRRs of below 6 and they don’t have long roll averages, etc. There are only a couple that I consider using on any trip and that depends on which ones are performing well the week before I go. For example, for whatever reason, the V2 might as well be the set I use for making 7s on the come out. It is that bad. Never use it. On the other hand, the V3, which really is just a different adjustment of the HW set, often performs like a star, but is not as heavy on the 6 and 8 as it is advertised (for me). I am absolutely convinced that the dice for each shooter are going to behave differently. All pitchers, for example, throw fast balls, and they all pretty much are gripped the same. Nevertheless, each guy’s fastball looks different on its way to the catcher’s mitt. Dice are the same. The way I do it is by getting on a table and starting with a HW set. What happens in the first few rolls (assuming your technique is on) shows how the dice are behaving. For instance, using the HW set, if I come out with a 5/2 or 4/3 seven, I’ll roll the HW next throw and if I get a hard 10 or some other primary hit, I can’t make a conclusion and will stay with the HW. But, if I get another double pitch 7 before a point is established, I’ll adjust. If the PL number is a single pitch, I might hang with the HW set. If I 7 out with a double pitch, the next hand will be with a different set that can’t make a 7 with a double pitch.
Big Daddy Guy: I’ll see what I can do about Shreveport Aug 10 – 12. Mama seemed a little peeved at the idea that I might be turning around and going back to a casino so quickly! Was really planning for a little later in the month. Are you guys going again in August?
Griz:
Sorry you missed the roll. I’ve missed a couple of yours. Oh well….we’ll bust them as a team during the fall. Also…I hadn’t thought about it, but when you have work to do, even if its in the back of your mind, I think it dilutes your concentration. I think roaming as a raiding party with nothing but dice on our minds could well yield some booty! We’ll have to get the Breeze in the mix too, so we don’t break up a bad ass gang!
Email offline for table conditions etc.
Keep On Rollin
Alamo
Posted by: DavidM on August 3, 2014, 4:57 pm
With those 2 things aside, I totally agree on adjusting to the "what are your dice ACTUALLY doing", concept. But..(always a but) not if you are just starting this journey. It takes a lot-o-work to get to the point that you really know, and understand what you are seeing. My refresher – tune up – Elite Video , and my journal notes are priceless.
Something I use when just slightly off. Setting h8 w/6’s to the right (SR shooter). Turn rt. di one face to left, gives 3V bottom. I then turn both over one click away to give me a 5-1 top w/3V facing me. In my mind it gives me a little edge at that time. If not, WALK ! On that adjustment, my record is 5 6’s in a row. (in my journal, this year)
Shoot with passion…and a plan.
DavidM
Posted by: Luckycharm on August 4, 2014, 5:38 pm
That was a great trip report. Like you, it takes me quite a while to settle in and relax. (My husband calls it ‘shiny red ball’ syndrome :)) I usually sit with $20 at penny slots to calm myself prior to hitting the tables…and if there’s an adult beverage involved, that’s okay too!
I’m a newbie, and will be taking the Primer in AC next month. I learned a lot about strategy from your report – appreciate you sharing all the info. I enjoyed the prevent defense analogy – definitely something I will use. Look forward to meeting you down the road!
I really enjoy reading everyone’s posts and I look forward to the time when I have something good to share.
MicheleZee
Posted by: getagrip on August 4, 2014, 7:12 pm
"AlamoTx" wrote: MONEY MANAGEMENT. Dice control will help you win, but you have to figure out how to keep it. Money management is almost as important as dice control itself.
Very much agree with your statement about money management and in my mind it is even more important than dice control. Now I am a huge proponent of dice control Craps play but to be honest none of us always has our A toss. 🙁 Solid betting strategy, discipline, and money management are things we can all always use even when our toss is a little below parr (pun intended). That is the reason why I rate these items even more important than dice influencing. Just my thoughts.
Nice report Alamo. Keep them coming and congrats on the wins! 🙂
Posted by: MarkM3 on August 4, 2014, 8:27 pm
But more important events taken from this trip was your discipline and adaptation, 2 qualities I’ve learned from another Texas Pal David M. It might be a squeeze to make it back to Shreveport again (had a couple decent rolls from the end again last week) but we can try. Going to South Carolina the 28th to vist my oldest boy, wanted to announce to all we will be having our first grandchild in November, a boy!!! After he learns how to fetch me a beer, next lesson will be what is 4 + 4..
"Thats a Hard 8 Papa" thats the way we teach um in Texas right DavidM??
AT whats up with the Tatoo, did you get the Yellow Rose of Texas or Screw Santa Anna 😆
Posted by: Mr Finesse on August 4, 2014, 9:52 pm
Posted by: Big Daddy Guy on August 6, 2014, 11:59 am
Posted by: Dr Crapology on August 7, 2014, 3:02 pm
Doc
Posted by: AlamoTx on August 8, 2014, 1:08 am
One topic that popped up here that I’m kind of interested in is the idea of shooting from the end of the table. MarkM3 had a decent roll in Vegas doing that, and I saw another guy have a pretty good hand from back there last trip.
Maybe that should go in as a new topic. Seems like you could accomplish dice control from there. You have to put some steam on the dice anyway, to get them some backspin. I heard some scuttlebutt once upon a time that GTC had an ‘advanced’ class where that was taught. I know some of the other ‘gurus’ teach it.
See all you guys around from time to time. And…no matter what…
Keep On Rollin’
Alamo
Posted by: The Breeze on August 8, 2014, 5:48 am
And because it was from the end none of us bet it and it was one of my better rolls with good rotation and the dice stayed together well in flight. But you end up with a lot on energy to deal with having to throw that distance.
Posted by: sevenout on August 9, 2014, 4:57 am
Did I read correctly, are you starting to become a Come bet convert? 😉
Posted by: MIDNIGHT on August 17, 2014, 1:18 pm
Midnight