Craps

Unit Bet Size and Heat

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I have read books, notably Wong’s book and some others, that suggest that you draw heat with the amount of your buy in and the size of your unit bet.

Next trip to Vegas, I plan to increase my unit size to a $60 6 & 8…assuming I have the guts. ( I reserve the right to change my mind when I get there! )

I think we all know that you have to bet more if you want to make more. "Up A Unit" at $60 is a hell of a lot more leverage than at $12. I’m not interested in hearing the platitudes about ‘take a course’ and ‘be sure you have an edge’ etc. My question is: Let’s say you buy in at $500 and you immediately go $5 on the PL and $60 on the 6 & 8. Is there any reason to be concerned that larger bet sizes will draw heat where you wouldn’t have gotten it before? I’ve had my bets up in that range a number of times from pressing, but never as a first unit going in. I’m sure the ‘big boys’ on the board here must go in pretty heavy, because I’ve read tales of table max bets and so forth, all while dice control is going on.

What say those of you who are green chippers?

and…Keep On Rollin’

Alamo


Replies:

Posted by: Dr Crapology on July 18, 2014, 3:45 pm

Don’t think most casinos will even blink at those size bets. Then again it may depend on the casino. On the strip and some of the larger places downtown I would imagine they should not sweat the bets you mention. However were you to stop by a small local casino where the locals play and bet %3 or $5 pass line best town, with $6 on the 6 and 8 the suits might just blow a gasket,especially if you had a long roll with presses. They simply aren’t use to that size of action.

With the places you mentioned in some off board correspondence we have had, I don’t think you will have a problem. I know the place where you are staying I had a 47 roll with zero comments besides "good roll." We were all tipping and the dealers made money.

Should you get some heat my money says it will be from not hitting the back wall not the size of your bets. Knowing you I don’t think you will get any heat.

Doc

Posted by: brothelman on July 18, 2014, 4:28 pm

That size bet will not draw heat.

Posted by: AlamoTx on July 18, 2014, 5:52 pm

Good. Assuming I have the sack to actually do it, heat will be one thing less to anticipate. I don’t usually draw heat, at all, at least not for my attitude. Once in a while I have an especially sweet launch that flops short, but I am usually very careful about hitting the back wall on the bounce.

Thanks. If I do well, I’ll post. If I suck, you’ll know, because there was no post!

Peace…and Keep On Rollin’

Alamo

Posted by: Skinny on July 18, 2014, 9:06 pm

I agree, those size bets will not draw heat, especially at reasonable size casinos that don’t blink at 10 times that amount being bet.

I would urge you to get the size of these wagers out of your head. You have mentioned several times how this is a big step up for you. Do not look at it that way.

You have done your homework. You know this is the proper bet size for your 401G and ability. You have plenty of evidence from your practice results that you are a solid shooter. Do not think about it as money. You have a game plan where you have analyzed the betting pattern you want to use. It is consistent with your bankroll, ability and tolerance for risk. Nothing else matters. Your betting plan tells you when to collect, press and spread out in units. It does not matter what the unit is as long as it fits within the parameters above. Everyone uses chips and they are all different colors. Your plan tells you what color you should use to bet, collect, press or spread. That is the only thing you need to think about with the betting.

Focus on your throw and being consistent with what you have practiced. The betting should be automatic.

Posted by: Skinny on July 18, 2014, 9:12 pm

One more thing. Try to play on the largest size minimum table at which you feel comfortable playing if you are concerned about heat. Those units are standard at a $15 or $25 table. If the casino has $5 and $10 tables, playing at the $10 table is better than at the $5.

Posted by: TommyC on July 19, 2014, 1:30 pm

During our stay in June, Ronald H and I played at small and large casinos scattered throughout Las Vegas. At times the 60 / 6 and 8 were by far the biggest bet on the table. At some places the 60 / 6 and 8 were the smallest bets on the table. As Doc noted the only time we had anything negative said to us was when we missed the back wall or my arm reached the other side of the table. (lol). This is not heat, just their rules. As Skinny said the size of the bet only matters to you. I also tip to much, so that helps with the dealers playing like they like me. 😀 Good luck and kick their butt !
TommyC

Posted by: professor on July 19, 2014, 2:08 pm

Skinny, One thing I can say about you is that you are consistent and fair with the answering of questions we have on this site. Some people thought you were harsh in your critque of my "betting on long rolls" post. But in reading your post here you said the same thing only in a different way. For me, I guess that critique of mine was an example of "tough love" for you told me in no uncertain terms the way it should be no matter how I took it or others. Thank you for your love of the game and the compassionate advice you give out.

Posted by: Skinny on July 20, 2014, 4:12 am

Thank you professor. My response was a bit strong because I was concerned you were heading in the wrong direction and wanted to help you out. It sounded to me like you were over thinking a bit and it was inhibiting your game. I tried to give you caveats to get you out of what I perceived to be your anxiety-neutral condition. Your follow up post did clarify your position to where I was less concerned and that is why I wrote the response I did to that post. You may have noticed I said that everything I wrote in the first post may not apply to you.

You are correct that my response to AlamoTx did have a different tone while it provided the same message. That is because Tx had already decided on what he was going to do and was taking a step up. I wanted to encourage him and point out some potential pitfalls to better prepare him for the uncharted territory he was entering.

On the one hand I thought I saw someone who was frozen and on the other I saw someone who was taking a fearless step forward. I am pleased you understood my message and did not take it as harsh.

Posted by: AlamoTx on July 21, 2014, 4:24 pm

Skinny –

Appreciate the words of encouragement on moving up the unit bet size. Right now, in practice, I am trying my best to get used to the gain/loss difference in routine play. However, when I’ve got $125 at risk and get a couple of quick 7 outs, it is daunting compared to the way it feels with $30 6 & 8.

So, the BR can stand it. I’m trying to man up and get to a place where my ‘cheap ass’ can tolerate the losses as well as the wins at higher levels. Maybe its an inherent respect for money or some other kind of fear of loss thing, but I think I’m going to have to just ‘do it’ and see how the result goes. In some ways, when you have a losing trip, and you survive it, you know you can stand the losses. And, my practice shows that in a sequence of 5 sessions of 3 games each, usually played over a period of days, yes, there will be a session that stinks and results in almost $400 in losses but later, there will be a win of, say, $968. I am doing everything in my power to just consider those chips as implements, but I’m not always successful. I think the best thing that could happen in live play would be to survive the initial outing at the higher level and maybe even win a little. It would be much harder to start the trip down a bunch…but, then it always is. No way around just going out there and playing.

Guess I’ll see.

Keep On Rollin’

Alamo