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    Why bet the PL?

    HardNine Posted on
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    I’ve never really thought about the exact value and sense of my bets until reading
    Increasing Your Come Bet
    Postby Cmcierra » 19 Feb 2014 19:47

    In the referenced post, it is presented that every box number bet pays $70 on a $10 table with 3x4x5x odds, except for the 4/10 which pays $72 on a place. If this is so, WHY BET THE PL?

    I haven’t been to the tables since getting the GTC DVD and working on practicing before trying the real thing, hopefully soon. But historically, I’ve used more of a 1x2x3x strategy on PL bets. I have had a bit of a lower bankroll, and on a $10 table, I’d be putting down a $12 or $18 place on the 6/8 plus my PL and perhaps 1-2 Come bets with my 1x2x3x betting strategy. In reality, I believe I’ve been foolish even playing the PL, except for the fun of it!

    If not playing full odds due to not wanting to have that much on the table at one time, the return on bets of the same value using Place bets returns from 1% to 20% better. For example, my $18 Place on the 6 pays $21. If I was able and foolish enough to put $8 behind a $10 PL bet, I’d get $19.60 (theoretically). The return on the Place is 7% better than the theoretical PL bet.

    I get that if odds are better than 3x4x5x the preference starts shifting to the PL bet, but leaving that out, it appears better to just use Place bets. Back to my question, why use PL if you’re not throwing? I’m looking forward to good conversation.

    Replies:

    Posted by: Dominator on February 23, 2014, 10:14 pm

    Hi Woody

    Every box number if you take max odds on a 3,4,5 X odds table and a $10 come bet pays $70 …. not place bets.

    I guess you haven’t gotten to the part on the DVD about using the 5 count because I am assuming from your question you are placing a PL on every shooter. 90% of the time if you use the 5-count on a random roller, you would be making come bets not PL bets on those shooters. Now when you shoot, obviously you need to make a PL bet just to shoot.

    Dominator

    Posted by: Skinny on February 24, 2014, 12:30 am

    Woody,

    You are only looking at the pay out after the point is established. On a PL or Come bet you have to also consider the 2-1 advantage you have on the come out roll of winning your base bet. There are six ways to roll a 7 and two ways to roll an 11 for a win of the base bet. You only have one way to roll a 2 or 12 and two ways to roll a 3 for losers of the base bet. Thus there are eight ways to win vs. four ways to lose the base bet. Those are bets that can be won before the point is established making the PL/Come bet a lower house edge for the player than a place bet.

    Posted by: Finisher on February 24, 2014, 5:09 am

    dHarly Most players bet the pass line or Dp . There is a rule that not all casinos use that you need to make one of these bets on the player before you in order to roll . Most don’t care tho .
    I use to bet the pl on every roller . It is my money to do what ever with . So know I vary seldom bet the pl .I try to make a pl bet on the guy before me but some times that does not happen .
    But then again I have had dealers say you can still roll even tho I did not make the bet .I have seen the dice get passed because of this rule but not with me so far .
    You and your BR decides what to bet or how much .
    Look at the 5 count more to understand more .
    On other rollers I wait till I feel like betting them make a come bet most of the time .Have won a lot of come bets this way for one thing but not a lot of action .Also have left a lot of one come bets out there too.
    I do stay at the tables to long tho .
    I say to my self that if I am going to loose it may as well be on my roll Of course it is more FUN winning on my roll . 🙂 🙂
    I think that you should try different ways of betting with the BR that you have and what feels better for YOU bet that way . ( in practice ) First .
    Good Rolling. 🙂 🙂

    Posted by: HardNine on February 25, 2014, 2:56 am

    Thanks for the great comments. Dom, I didn’t apply the 5 count, as I’d never known of it before the DVD. That certainly changes things, and of course, I didn’t apply all of the other situations. I’m now an even better edumacated craps player!

    Thanks all,
    Don

    Posted by: TheLion on February 25, 2014, 4:00 am

    Before we bet on a CF-er, we use a 3-box count in which come out rolls and horn numbers do not count as part of the count. If the shooter’s third box number on his initial roll is his first point, we wait for that shooter to hit one more box number after his 2nd point is established before we make a bet. When we bet, we will make either a $12 "6 or 8" depending on what the point is. It becomes a $6 game for us — we barely bet on any CF-er anymore and trust me, our lowered comps are truly reflecting our betting change — but, it is saving us in the long run. Basically, this strategy almost eliminates betting on 60-70 percent of the shooters on a table while we play.

    Posted by: MIDNIGHT on February 25, 2014, 9:54 am

    Hey Woody,
    May I please suggest that you take the primer class. Golden Touch is much more then Teaching you how to controll the dice. It’s teaching you how to bet and then discipline in sticking with the correct betting stragedy. 90% of students, including myself join GTC thinking that all they need is to learn how to throw the dice and then they are set. The truth is, you may be the best dice controller in the world, if you don’t optimize the 5 count and know which bets are good and which are bad, and know how to maximize the best ones, then You will never win. Heed my advise and take a class pleAse. It will make you a better craps player all around. And you’ll have fun.

    Michael

    Posted by: HardNine on February 25, 2014, 2:57 pm

    @ Michael, I’m thinking about the primer. Was hoping for Chicago, seeing I live 20 minutes from where it would be. Could have squeaked out AC if my travel to my client was one week earlier. I’ll get something figured out. Thanks again to all for the comments.

    Don

    Posted by: Finisher on February 26, 2014, 4:44 am

    dHarley I graduated from Lindblum Tech on south side of Chicago .
    The last time I was in Chicago was for 10 yr. reunion in 1978 .
    Time has sure gone by .
    Good luck on this journey and many long rolls .
    Good Rolling. 🙂 🙂

    HardNine
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