With a DONT COME bet sitting on a new come-out:
If the come-out is a seven, is the win on the flat bet and the odds?
If the come-out is the number of that DONT COME, is the loss the flat bet and the odds?
I’m wondering.
Replies:
Posted by: Stephen C on May 21, 2012, 10:10 pm
Posted by: SevenTimesSeven on May 22, 2012, 12:48 am
If the come-out is a seven, is the loss on the flat bet and the odds?
If the come-out is the number of that COME, is the win on the flat bet and the odds?
I’m wondering.
Posted by: Stephen C on May 22, 2012, 1:22 am
This is taken from http://www.ildado.com/craps_rules.html
Because of the Come Bet, if the shooter makes their point, a player can find themselves in the situation where they have a Come Bet (possibly with odds on it) and the next roll is a Come Out roll. In this situation odds bets on the come wagers are presumed to be not working for the Come Out roll. That means that if the shooter rolls a 7 on the Come Out roll, any players with active Come Bets waiting for a ‘come point’ lose their initial wager but will have their odds money returned to them. If the ‘come point’ is rolled the odds do not win but the Come Bet does and the odds are returned. The player can tell the dealer that they want their odds working, such that if the shooter rolls a number that matches the ‘come point’, the odds bet will win along with the Come Bet, and if a seven is rolled both lose.
Posted by: SevenTimesSeven on May 22, 2012, 2:16 am
the rules for a sitting DONT COME bet with odds differ from
the rules for a sitting COME bet with odds.
Seems to me there is some imbalance there.
The casinos agreed on and established these rules?
Does the HA then differ between the DONT COME and the COME BETS?
Posted by: Stephen C on May 22, 2012, 2:42 am
http://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/
Also, on the Come Out you can disregard the Odds portion of either bet unless your foolish enough or good enough to turn them on. In both instances they are considered off. You are only dealing with the flat bet part.
As far as the Casinos all getting together and agreeing to the rules of the game, no, not in modern times. Most venues (States), where Craps are offered, the Casinos are governed by Gaming Commissions who proscribe the rules to be followed.
Posted by: Skinny on May 22, 2012, 3:39 am
Although I am not sure I can add very much or give a great answer beyond what you have already been told. Stephen C and Bretboy1 have given you correct answers to your questions.
I will try and beat this horse to death with an extended answer that hopefully clears up all confusion. Or it may add more confusion and we can go on from there 🙂
A come bet is made after a point is established while the shooter is in the point cycle, attempting to make his point. The flat portion of a come bet is a contract bet with the house. Once it goes to a number the flat portion can not be removed by the player. This is because the player has a 2-1 advantage over the house when the come bet is first made, prior to going to a point number. Once it goes to a point number the advantage shifts to the house according to the true odds of making whatever point number it goes on. Since the house was at a disadvantage during the come out roll for the come wager they want the flat bet to always be working after it goes to a point number so that they can get back the advantage the player had on the wager when the come bet was first made.
That is the logic behind why the flat portion of the come bet is working on a new come out roll for the shooter if he should make his point.
The odds do not matter to the house one way or the other since there is no advantage to the player or the house in a random game. Since players betting "with" the shooter are rooting for a 7 or 11 on a come out roll, the house leaves the odds "off" on all come bets during the come out roll. Of course a player can request to have his odds "working" on the come out roll for any combination of come bets that he has up on the board. Say for example he had all six numbers covered with a come bet. The standard rule is for the flat portion of all those bets to be working on the come out and the odds to be off on the come out. But the player could request to have his odds working on any 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 of his come bets if he so chose to do so. But he has no choice with the flat portion.
Let us say we go with the standard rule and the player has all six numbers covered. If the shooter rolls a 7 on the come out roll, the player would lose the flat bet on all six come bets (he would win his pass line wager if he made one) and all the odds would be returned to him. If instead the shooter established a point number, the player would win the flat portion of his come bet on that number. The odds would be returned to him along with the flat bet and flat bet winnings.
Now let us look at a don’t come wager.
A don’t come bet is made after a point is established while the shooter is in the point cycle, attempting to make his point. The flat portion of a don’t come bet is not a contract bet with the house. Once it goes to a number the flat portion can be removed by the player at any time. This is because the player was at a 3 – 8 disadvantage with the house when the come bet was first made, prior to going to a point number. Once it goes to a point number the advantage shifts to the player according to the true odds of making whatever point number it goes on. Since the house is at a disadvantage after the come out roll for the don’t come wager they allow the player to take the bet down any time he wants to do so. Once removed it can not be replaced except by going through the don’t come and establishing the number again. Likewise the player can lay odds or remove them at anytime as well on the don’t come wager once it goes to a point number.
Standard rules are for the flat portion and odds for a don’t come wager to be "working" on a new come out roll after the shooter has made his point and is on a new come out roll to establish a new point. I am guessing the house does this because most people would want the flat portion of their don’t come to be working on come out rolls because the player has the advantage over the house at that time according to the true odds for whatever number(s) the player has don’t come wager(s) established. If they left the bets off as the standard most folks would just request to have them working anyhow. So I suppose they did it the way they did to minimize the discussion at the table. Of course the player can request to have his odds and/or flat portion of any and all don’t come wagers to be off on a come out roll. But there would be no reason to do that since the player has the advantage on the come out and all subsequent rolls by the shooter once he has established a point thru the don’t come.
Let us say we go with the standard rule and the player has all six numbers covered with don’t come wagers and odds. If the shooter rolls a 7 on the come out roll, the player would win the flat bet on all six don’t come bets (he would lose his don’t pass line wager if he made one) and he would win the odds bets on all six numbers as well. He would be paid even money on his flat bet and the true odds on each number (1-2 on the 4/10, 2-3 on the 5/9 and 5-6 on the 6/8). If instead the shooter established a point number, the player would lose the flat portion of his don’t come bet and lose the odds laid on that number.
Posted by: SevenTimesSeven on May 22, 2012, 3:46 pm
It’s refreshing to get such a compleat answer as from Skinny,
without insults as we sometimes see in a few answers to ‘stupid’ questions.