Posted by johncorte:
Hi,
The last few days I have been practicing with different dice sets, I noticed that when using the x6 with 4/5 front that my rolls are longer 12-15 range. Most of my 7 outs are 4/3 or 5/2 with a few 6/1s I realize that a few days practice doesn’t make perfect however as with your toss finding the right set is just as important. As pointed out before is that we want to avoid the seven is changing sets a good idea. Any insight to this will help. The other adjustment to my toss is my table is very hard. Would you change sets for table conditions?
John Corte
Billy the Kid responds:
John,
The dice dont know how you have arranged them, they only react to how you have tossed them.
You will find some people that will tell you to switch sets if your toss is off. I disagree with them. The dice are never the problem, the seven outs are always a product of a bad toss. If you think that you have fixed the problem by "fixing" the dice set you are fooling yourself. To gain consistancy you must fix the grip and delivery.
Do I use different sets? Yes I do, but not in the same hand and I will switch to the hardway set for certain conditions that I believe will produce more off axis results from my toss. All of the other sets have exactly the same seven avoidance properties and will produce the same sevens to roll ratio with the same shots. The only difference will be the numbers that the shots will produce.
Look at it this way. If you make 4 perfect tosses with the 3V set you will show 2 6’s and 2 8’s. If you make 4 perfect tosses with that X6 set you will show one 5, one 9 and one each hi/low. Is this the result that you want? If you are betting the field and horn then you have a winning combination. Are you going to bet the field and horn every roll? I’m not. When I make a perfect toss I want to get paid. The 6/8 are the best bets on the table so those are the bets that I want to bet and win.
You stated that most of your seven outs are 4/3 or 5/2. This means that you are going off axis more than you should. If this is the case then you should use the hardway set to achieve the best results until you start to see more on axis seven outs and then go to a different set.
Everyone should know that there is no holy grail of dice sets. The only way to win is to develope a great grip and toss that will produce enough good shots to overcome the house advantage on the bets that you have made. THATS IT! No magic set or magic combination of bets, just the hard work of learning the proper technique and practicing your ass off. There is no easier way.
Billy the Kid
Dominator responds:
Everything that Billy said is so true, and I can’t add very much. But, (man isn’t there always a but), sometimes we do need a change. Like a baseball hitter that changes his stance when he is in a slump. Will it help in the short run, maybe,but in the long run, it is always back to basics, and basics in a good throw in craps is the grip and the toss.
So a checklist John:
1. make sure that your fingers are square across on the dice
2. make sure you are throwing with a 45 degree angle
3. make sure you release the dice without any lag on any fingers
4. make sure you throw the dice with an empty mind, just toss them and let them flow
Always remember that dice throwing is a journey not a destination. We take steps towards mastery, but never really get there. A true master of anything, knows that there is always something to learn and that he or she can get better. So there are times when your throw will be a little off and your SRR will go down. Look at it as the course in learning. Correct the problem, don’t take an aspirin to hide the pain, find the cause of the pain. And remember, that in any learning curve you have to go backwards one step to take two steps forward!
Dominator
No Field Five responds:
"Make sure you throw the dice with an empty mind, just toss them and let them flow."
For the experienced "Careful Shooter" this is the most important point of them all.
I was in Vegas and had 3 bad sessions (my shooting). I called Billy the Kid and his advice was to just toss em and not try to steer them.
Every one of my rolls after that advice were much better. I had gotten into a situation where I was thinking way to much instead of letting the toss take care of itself. I knew the grip was level and the toss angle was good, but the results of the toss was inconsistent. Fundamentally the individual pieces of the toss were good but the sum of the parts was flawed.
Great Post Dom!
Mr Finesse responds:
Seven out usually can be seen when the dice are in the air before they even hit the table surface.
This all starts with the grip which is the only contact we have with the dice and it is translated into our delivery and release.
Most shooters want to throw the dice and keep on throwing them, but most shooters should keep on gripping and re gripping the dice, when the grip is wrong everything is wrong.
Experimenting with sets is O K but eventually you will find the set that works best for you. I use the world set on the come out and the remainder of the time I use the 2 V set and I have been using this set for over 3 years, everyone I play with on a regular basis knows this and they also know I put the 2 V on the bottom 99% of the time.
Bob
John Corte responds:
As always this group respons in a great way, Thanks since my post on this matter my practice sessions are much better and Dom your so right about the empty mine is what we need to have.All the advice I recievied was very good and appreciated.I was over thinking my toss.
Thanks to all for the help
John Corte
philham responds:
I have a memory of the recent LV class where someone said to stay with the hardways set for a year. The results have been gratifying both in practice and in the casinos.
I have often wondered what I should expect from my practice sessions. Initially, I sevened out with great frequency. Now, as my eye has been trained to follow the dice in their orbit, I can see when it looks good. My practice rolls have been increasingly in the teens with 30’s and one 50 roll. Having experimented , I found as suggested in other posts that if your rolls are producing too many sevens, take a break. This has resulted in many more dice recoveries and far less frustration and self-doubt.
Since we are told the game is 80% mental, playing with your mind is a crucial step in the educative process. The results in the casinos to date have validated my practice sessions.
Dominator responds
John,
Changing sets is like taking aspirin for a pain and not finding out what is really wrong. The dice set is not important. It is only important when you have the skill to constantly hit primary numbers. What I mean by this is that if you are trying to hit the 12, then X6 is the set. To use the cross six set during any point cycle in the casino can produce "Junk" numbers if you hit primaries, i.e. throw a 12 during the point cycle and you DON"T GET PAID. What good is it that you hit a primary and all it produced for you is a crap number? With that in mind, remember that the SRR is not as important as the amount of "paid" hits you get. In other words, if you throw 5 times and all are box numbers, you can make a ton of money! That is why I suggest in any regression form of betting you do, to use the amount of rolls for your regression, not the amount of hits.
So stick with the hardway set. You are not there yet to use anything else. If you are not getting good results, look to your grip, not the set.
Dominator
Rodrigo responds
Check all the physical things you are doing, down to the minutest, before you think in terms of the quick fix which is changing the set you use. If you have a physical problem it will not get better because you changed your set.
I have used the hardways for almost a year and I think that was very good advice from the GTC instructors.
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