I too have felt the affects of the 5 count from casino personal. No so much in the form of heat when buying in and waiting, but in the rating I would receive. After playing for an hour or two, and after either winning, losing, or breaking even, I would ask the boxman, what my average is for my rating. He would then in a poor tone would reply " Well you don’t play every shooter so you may be averaging $30-40 but I’m only going to give you $15-20" Rather than argue and since its not a casino I stay at I just turned and smiled and praised the power of the 5 count. Playing smarter is much more valuable then a fair casino rating. On the flip side, the hotel that I normally stay at, after building strong personal relationship with multiple boxmen and women, they don’t mind me 5 counting and always rate me at $50-60. My feeling is when a boxman is such a stickler about betting every shooter and cutting your rating in half, he is too much of a company man and is short sighted. On the off chance I come across a casino manager, I have been know to take a moment and compliment that boxman on a job well done and what a nice time I had. That then filters down to them and makes them look good with the boss.
NEVER EVER give into the pressure of betting. It your money and entertainment. Just like the books say, just advise your waiting for a hot shooter or you have a "system" or you are superstious and like to wait for just the right moment etc. Don’t ever be pressured to bet or play against your training!! Or you can walk to a different table or casino. Otherwise be strong and don’t give into their pressure and play your game.

Where I play it is not so much the 5 count but not being allowed to shoot if I don’t "play" There are always people waiting to get on the one open table.
I address this with a single table min. bet on the 6 only on all but myself. It is not consistent with GTC teachings but it is necessary where I play. It works in that situation and should work for the 5 count as well. Funny thing is that bet hits often enough to not cost me money on most outings anyway.

JRC

"Chuco" wrote: …Playing smarter is much more valuable then a fair casino rating. …My feeling is when a boxman is such a stickler about betting every shooter… NEVER EVER give into the pressure of betting. It your money and entertainment. Just like the books say, just advise

you’re waiting for a hot shooter or you have a "system" or you are superstious and like to wait for just the right moment etc. Don’t ever be pressured to bet or play against your training!! Or you can walk to a different table or casino. Otherwise be strong and don’t give into their pressure and play your game.

Lococraps, JRC handled this well by making a table minimum bet to defer the scrutiny. Normally, playing the "GTC way" by having a dealer bet on the pass line when I’m shooting is enough. But occasionally I’ll experience the same thing as you when playing at casinos where their table is the only game in town.

Keep in mind that the "math doesn’t lie" and that in a negative-expectation game like craps, even a table-minimum place 6 (or 8) bet on a random roller will be a long-term loser.

It will be interesting to hear what happens after you have several winning sessions at this particular casino. From the attitude you describe, maybe it isn’t the place to be putting your hard-earned bankroll at risk.

Chuco offers some wise advice and several great ideas on how to handle situations such as yours. Others on our board may have more suggestions as well.

😎 😎 😎

I don’t use the five count at all .
I prefer to play by my feeling .
So while all of you are trying to fig what the count is I may be betting or getting paid or on a number or loosing my bet . O r maybe
just not betting at all.
But there will be only one bet made unless I win then maybe another one .
It all depends on how I feel at the time .May go to a 6 count or more at times .
I like to mix it up so they can not say how I bet period . After awhile they would say he took the class and bets like the rest if you do the 5 count .
Some times I make a little and some times I loose a little .But do bet a lot less then years past . Have made one bet last threw 20 /30 rolls some times .Have taken down bet after not hitting it some times after 4 rolls with out hit also .
Do you make place bets after 5 count ?
Do you make pass line bets ?
Do you make more then one bet after 5 count ?
Do you make come bets ?
Good Rolling. 😀 😀

Well I am not a feeling type of guy at the tables as Finisher. I believe you should have a plan when you go to the tables and always play the math. So because every bet has a negative expectation to it, I use the five count, and to bring the house edge down, I use a comebet after the 5-count.

Now those of you that need to bet on the previous shooter in order to throw the dice, put out a passline bet.

Those of you that have a dealer say something to you … come up with a line to say …. I like Billy’s line, "I wouldn’t bet right now with your money."

When you are throwing the math of the game right back at the casino and you are using a controlled throw you might have some dealers and pit people give you an attitude …. you got to develop a thick skin if you want to win!

As far as ratings are concerned, I have seen ratings go down because of using the 5-count. You got to ask yourself do I want ratings or do I want to win. A happy medium is the key.

Dominator

Thanks for the tips guys! Unfortunately, this is the only casino near my home. I either have to drive 8 hours to get to another casino, or I have to catch a flight to Vegas…I figure that if I need to catch a flight to get somewhere, I might as well go to Vegas where I can get a free room.

I use the 5 count most times. On some of the casinos that I play they count the first four or five rolls to set your rating. I bet heavier on those rolls then regress and start my 5 counting on future shooters. Sometimes this costs me a few bucks, some times I make extra because of it. This was I can 5 count all random shooters and still get a decent rating. I dont play for ratings but to make money, but it helps to know how and when the pit boss rates a player.

I had mentioned to Jumbotron Ron and Billy the Kid when I was with them in AC that I did not have the discipline to strictly adhere to the five count. They both urged me to always use it as it was the best way to make the bankroll last when waiting for the hit shooter.

I also have the bad habit of making a Hard ways bet now and again. To me it makes the game more fun and if I give a bit if edge back to the casino on those particular bets that is the price I pay. But the HW bets are relatively small so I do not sweat it.

I do the hardway bets on certain controlled shooters only. A good example is brothelman throws a lot of hardways

Read my post about distractions. There is no rule of craps that says you have to have a bet down on every roll of the dice.

I too have been ‘urged’ to make a bet many times. Those guys are there to sell bets to you. It’s their job. The way I handle it is to say something like "Hey bro, with a table this cold, I’m going to make this guy prove he can get past a few rolls before I hitch a ride with him." Then smile and put your next ‘count’ chip in the rack. Once they see that you’re actually doing that, they’ll get the picture. And, they’ll think you’re a genius when the 7 hits on your 5 counted come bet!

If feeling like a 5 count freak is really bugging you, bet a $1 hard 10 or the point (unless its a 5 or a 9…duh) and then 5 count from there…. Who knows, you might hit one of them!
Alamo

Could you remove the heat on the 5-count by hopping the sevens for a small amount each, say $1 or $2 dollars while you are doing the five-count on random shooters? I have never done this but am thinking about doing it on my next trip to the casino. Like to see some comments about this idea. Thanks.

I have actually done a $1 or $5, 5-2 and 4-3 HOP bet (choosing not to invest on a 6-1) on the "6th" roll of the 5 count when I feel like gambling on a hella high house edge prop knowing how high the probability of some 7 combo possibly appearing. I have hit it a few times. I have lost more times than I have hit it though. But I feel like such a swami when it does hit. The same can be said when I put out my come bet on that 6th roll and a 7 comes and I win while unfortunately everyone for the most part looses. Its the power and discipline of the 5 count people. Learn it, Know it, use it, live it!

"JRC" wrote: Where I play it is not so much the 5 count but not being allowed to shoot if I don’t "play" There are always people waiting to get on the one open table.
I address this with a single table min. bet on the 6 only on all but myself. It is not consistent with GTC teachings but it is necessary where I play. It works in that situation and should work for the 5 count as well. Funny thing is that bet hits often enough to not cost me money on most outings anyway.

JRC

That one table min bet will be a long term loser on random rollers. The math will make sure of that.
I consider it a cost of doing business.

The rules were not always so bad. I play this casino about once a week and have for 3 years. I tip every time I shoot and every time I leave the table a winner (that happens often). The crew love me. The box gives me no trouble what so ever. Somebody up the chain has put these rules in effect because of the 5count. I think it was being picked up by other players just because I played it so much. You don’t have to be to smart to try what you see work at the table often enough. The fact they won’t let me shoot unless I am "actively playing" pretty much says it works and somebody in power knows it. So far they have not come up with any problem with that one min bet. At least the same rule applies to all players so i just deal with it.

JRC

JRC Do you ever press your bet on that min. bet? I would think after 2 or 3 wins you could increase the bet to make up for those short rolls that you lost . Just a thought.
I bet the 8 one time and it took 42 rolls and 4 rollers before I hit it . I was the 3rd roller and did not roll it. But the roller after me did and I was happy.
I made some come bets during my roll that did make me a little .Also made 2 points but no 8.
Good Rolling. 😀 😀

My favorite local casino has gone to "Vegas" rules. This means you have to have a bet on the shooter before you to shoot. Well, I’m a bit stubborn so I 5 counted and didn’t get to shoot for several times around the table, there were only 4 players. When it got down to 3 players they gave me the dice anyway. My comments at the end of the session were that "this isn’t Vegas". Pisses me off and I am boycotting them all the month of May. Besides another place I like has changed their underlay and it is a real close fit to my home table.

When anyone watches me and has a query about betting I tell them I qualify every shooter. Five count has saved me a fortune. A very small fortune though.

OneMoonCircles

One Moon Circles So you are one of those guys that take up the best spot and does not threw.
Just kidding but I do hate the ones that do that just so they can make their bets easy. I was at a table were this guy stood at sl 1-2 and never wanted to throw the dice so after awhile I asked why he said that was the best place to make place bets and control his money . He did bet across on every shooter and pressed all the time .
It was a roller coaster ride I must admit .
I like ONE BET either a come or one place bet then a pass line bet on roller before me. If pit is gone NO bets at all .I have tried all kinds of betting now just go with my feeling. That seems to work best for me other wise it is Murfeys Law .
Good Rolling. 😀 😀

No heat in my experiences.

5-10 counting people is not uncommon. Have tried getting into a conversation with a dealer, stick, box or pit? Sometimes they initiate the conversation. Before a casino trip, beef up on news, world events, politics..and……..especially….SPORTS. Its good time spent……..notice time spent…..not money.

SE

"Finisher" wrote: JRC Do you ever press your bet on that min. bet? I would think after 2 or 3 wins you could increase the bet to make up for those short rolls that you lost . Just a thought.
I bet the 8 one time and it took 42 rolls and 4 rollers before I hit it . I was the 3rd roller and did not roll it. But the roller after me did and I was happy.
I made some come bets during my roll that did make me a little .Also made 2 points but no 8.
Good Rolling. 😀 😀

Yes i do press if i have collected a couple wins. You never know when a random roll defies the odds and takes off. Most times i consider myself lucky if i don’t lose that bet. the goal is to just trade dollars and make the pit happy that i am "Actively Playing".

JRC

I 5 count everyone except the shooter before me. On the shooter before me I make a come bet with no odds unless they make the 5 count. When the dealers ask about odds, I just shake my head and say I’m not feeling it yet". Seems to satisfy their "rule" about no action on last shooter.

I would not like the rule that you need to bet all the time at table. I guess I would be making more rest room breaks then.
Good Rolling. 😀 😀