They teach this throw in the advantced class go to school and learn from the best you are doing it wrong.

Thanks for responses, guys.

I am planning to take a refresher in September. That’s a long time from now.

I have read and was using some of the methods in the new book.

The dice stay low and rotating about 50% of the time.

I only have the issue with the knuckle-ball throw when I try to keep it low.

this is somthing you must be shown to complicated to explain in words,because if you get it wrong and spend 6 months practing it wrong before you go tto sept class you will have even a harder time learning it.

This is somthing you should be shown so the person showing can be sure you are doing it right.

oh ya they do not teach a second shot until the advanced class, just by what you are sayng that the dice nuckle ball on you says you do not have enuff knowledge or time with the dice to prep a second shot.

Play when and where you have an advantage not where you think you can make one.

bman,

once again you make generalized assumptions about someone’s experience and knowledge that you have no clue as to what the "fellow" gtcer can or cannot do. perhaps he just can’t ask the "proper" question.

your response is insulting and demeaning and without basis.

dbr

What is assumed he says he has trouble with it,

How many people have you played with that have tried to teach themselves a new shot or for that matter the first shot and can do it?

In the hundreds i have played with one and only one has gotten even close but he to instilled such bad habbits that he could not change them so he has to work with what he has got and will be limited as to what he can do.

So from my personal experience i draw the answers i do and try to save this person from trying to go where others have gone and failed.

Yes he could be the first to succed but he is already strugling in the begining, do not know anyone who could do algabra without being able to do multiplication first.

My basis is all that have gone before him,i have seen hundreeds.

I ask only this if you teach yourself one thing wrong how hard is it to correct.

Is it not easier to learn right to start with.

And once agian you chosse me out when all i am trying to do is help. instead of thryng to help out so enlighten me as to his abilities since you are so well informed about them.

lets get this straight when i am picking on someone they will know.

This begs a responce ….. 🙄 🙄 🙄

okay guys was i insulataing and demening or was i blunt and to the point?

Bman I think being yourself is fine with me.
Hope to roll with you some day. Will let you know when I will be coming to Vegas.
Good Rolling. 😀

Why thank you guys.

Dbr loves to bust my balls about the way i do things, there is a chance that he is hoping somw day i will gwt better polished so i am better able to help others

Just to make sure everyone understands, I am referencing the latest book that discusses new methods of throwing on bouncy tables.

Page 74 describes a low throw with a higher thumb to minimize spin. When I do that, my throw sometimes results in a knuckle-ball spin.
I did not say that I was it was occurring all of the time, but it was occurring 50% of the time.

Bman, I did take the primer course in 2008, so I do believe I do have enough knowledge and time to prepare for a second shot. I’m no expert, but my first shot is much better than the second. The second shot is the one I’m asking about.

Of course the advanced class will be the best place to learn the different shot, but it does not hurt to begin to experiment with a lower angle and different spin rates to begin to learn another playing surface. The tables in our area vary from firm to super bouncy, and I am trying to adjust and learn the different surfaces.

I understand where you are coming from talking about learning and relearning, but I don’t agree with you. You have your opinion and I have mine. Free country.

When we treat our throw like a sport, we are constantly practicing, playing and working towards perfection. Some people learn a task correctly the first time, and don’t need any corrections. Many people have to continue to use a coach, instructor, or playing partner to see what’s being done right and wrong, and make corrections and adjustments. We all hear of golfers that go to the range after a round to work on their swing.

I’m one of those that plans to continue to receive instruction and guidance from gtc instructors and students.

And I didn’t say that I am teaching myself a new shot. What I am doing is taking information from the new book and beginning to learn. I will always be learning.

We should be able to discuss new things that we are working on. We are only looking for input. I don’t mind you giving your opinion, but noone should be discouraged from learning something new. In other words, I’m going to continue to learn and experiment until I get to the advanced level.

I am still open to hearing other opinions of this type of throw. I am sure there are others out there that have experimented or played on bouncy tables.

I have more recently moved my thumb lower for more spin, and kept the path low as described in the book. When I hit the landing area further from the wall, the dice do have time to spin and slow down and stop after hitting the wall. This is currently working better for me than the low rotation and the low path.

Clark, this is TP writing this post, I called it "Low Rider" because I was discussing the low throw.

TP1 When I took the class last Oct. I did not play that weekend till the class was over. That was the first class that I have taken. When it was over I decided that I would go play were I was staying at. I had played there before. So I WAS SURE THAT i WAS GOING TO HAVE SOME GOOD ROSS .
Well I had to wait around for awhile till my spot opened up. I was breaking one rule by now . That was about being tired. But I had been waiting ALL weekend to roll .
So I told myself that I would not bet much .This was because the dice had to go to just about everybody at the table before they would come to me .So I made no pass line bets .Just made come bets one at a time till I got the dice.

I actually thought about leaving at one point. But I told myself that I could adjust my throw.After watching player and player throw the dice off the table.I said to myself at one point that I did not remember the table being this way when I played here last. Did they change the tables??

Well before I got the dice I counted the dice went off the table 15 times. I made money betting the come on at least 3 of those off table rolls.If I already had a come bet working it did not help for I stuck to the one come bet. So I did loose some. But threw the 8 or 9 rollers I did make a little.

Well I put up my line bet and a dollar on the fire for the dealers. They wanted to know if I wanted one and I said no. I then went on to make five points and left 2 times my bye in. Did not make the fire for the dealers but they thanked me . Not one of my rolls went off the table. So it is good to see what you are getting into and make adjustments . Even when you are not an expert. I my not have rolled a 40 or 50 but my dice did stay on the table. Winning is fun.
Good Rolling. 😀

experimenting is good it is how we learn about our throw.

You are doing somthng wrong the knuckle ball proves it.

some one needs to help you so you do not practice bad habits.

lets talk charlie hugh pitcher for the dodgers i actually played a round of golf with him in saboba springs we were partnered.

When he throws the knuckle ball he pushes it at the end instead of following threw in a downward motion hence the floating knuckle ball is created.

With the dice in your hand you are not following threw, you are not making a full swing you are pushing the dice at a lower plain across the table so they stay low like a shot putter would do, this creates the flatness in the nuckle ball because they just slip straight out of your hand and do not roll off your fingers.

try tipping your shoulder that is your throwing arm lower yes this will make the shoulders un level this might give you a lower flight path, while keeping the solid arm swing with the follow threw.

You can also try throwing from one foot make a few shoots with each foot note the release point one should make the dice fly higher and the other should make them fly lower.

No matter what you do you have to keep the arm swinging from the shoulder.

By the way when did i say do not learn?

i said learn it right, if you are having trouble and can not figure it out waite until you can show someone and they can help.

Saying you are doing it wrong was easy you said you are throwing knuckle balls lmao.

by the way when you are pushng the dice it will feel like you are throwing them from the forearm, elbow and not the shoulder.

Rember the dice must roll out of you hand no matter what you are doing not push out like a shot put.

ok finally some good suggestions!

I will pay more attention to the follow through. I may be trying to keep the path so low that I do not maintain the natural arc that every throw should have.

I did not mention that I do tip the shoulder. It does help with keeping the dice low.
I definitely notice the difference when I tip the shoulder and feel the weight shift from one foot to the next.

I appreciate the reminder about using the shoulder instead of the forearm and elbow.

Thanks again for the pointers, guys!

JFEI,

I actually like Bman most of the time. I wrote my response to his comments, as soon as I read them. But I saved them to draft and refrained from posting how I felt in an attempt to not stir the pot. However, after reading Bman’s "constructive" comments to Philham which I found to be equally presumptuous; I chose to post my thoughts regarding Bman’s comments regarding TP1’s post asking for suggestions. SSDD

All of us are adults and this message board should have a positive purpose not a negative deconstructive one. We should encourage all questions and offer helpful advice to grow our knowledge. I would be the first to acknowledge that practicing bad habits will be hard to break, however, we should all nurture each other because we are not each others enemies. We as individuals or as small groups should be the casinos worst enemy. There are dice controllers who have not taken a GTC class and shoot well.

I am not a message board monitor and no one that post on this site needs me to stand up for them. But, I am anyone’s wingman if they need me to be and their cause is worthy of such.

I think Bman is a great dice controller and as I have stated before BMAN is so passionate about craps and I should say "GTC CRAPS" that he sometimes leap to the wrong conclusions IN MY OPINION.

Bman, you state that you mean well. My suggestion is simple: write your responses as you would hope someone would respond to you, same tone, same language,and same content.

Hope to shoot with you and Lois and Clark in late May or June in Vegas

DBR