Dominator posts
Hi all,
How many of you have won on your rolls and lost everything on other shooters? Well I have and I would guess that that most of you have. How can we prevent this from happening?
One idea from me is to not lose focus about why you are going to play craps. Sure, we do it for fun, but it is more fun to win, isn’t it? The next time we go to the casinos to play, repeat this mantra to yourself at the tables, "if I must bet on other shooters, I will only bet on them after the five count". "I will not lose my hard earned money on non controlled rollers just to be in the action".
What about you, do you have any ideas that might help us in our discipline?
Dominator
fscobe responds
Obviously I say play the 5-Count, knock off 57% of the random rolls from the get-go. Then bet one fourth (or less) than what you normally do on those who have gotten through the 5-Count but are just chicken feeders. Better still, bet one bet at table minimum. Then bet your normal amounts on yourself and anyone else who has shown he can shoot with some effectiveness.
I would even recommend using the 5-Count on our own GTC guys, especially in the beginnning, to see if they have the goods on any given night. Following this advice is the next best thing to never betting any random roller and just waiting for the GTC guys to shoot. However, for those of you who don’t live in casino towns and/or just love to play, drastically reducing the amount you bet on others serves a very important purpose — your own rolls won’t have to be monsters to make up any deficits!
Frank
Mr Finesse responds
As most of the GTC coaches know I have been using the 5-count for close to 9 months now. I have had times where I have experimented with 2 repeating numbers before I make a bet, the doey don’t with single and double odds, five-count with place bets and the 5-count with come bets on the 4 count. Nothing works better than the 5-count with come bets starting on the 4 count.
I have been using this system exclusively now for 2 months straight and I have had only 2 losing session and those were for less than $100. Most of you know I play every week and most weeks 2 times.
The last 8 sessions that I have played I have watched people at the tables in Foxwoods loose thousands and I may be out $40 or 50. I am just waiting to have my good roll and I will have one every session. A week ago Thursday I was out about $75, mostly loosing on a few CF’s where they 7’d out on the 6 count and I was throwing the dice real nice and I could feel the roll coming. I started playing at 9:30 AM on a half full table with 2 of my favorite dealers working the table and a real friendly Pitt boss. 3 hours later I think to my self it is time and when the dice come to me I proceed to have about a 40 minute roll which brings me from -$75 to +$850 and I started out with $5 units on the pass and come.
Last Thur and Sunday the same thing, the dice are coming out of my hand like silk but only rolls of 8, 9 or 12. Not big money makers but money makers no less. I know the good roll is only around the corner, my dice are landing where I want them and staying within a 10 in radius after touchdown. I never lost alot on others and when my rolls came it was make the money on rolls in the 20’s and color-up and head home. Thanks for another withdrawal from the Bank of Foxwoods.
Use the 5-count and believe in it, When people at the tables who do not know what I am doing ask me why I have not lost like they have I know it is the 5-count. I am not afraid to tell them I use the 5-count, they look at me kind of funny and I tell them to go purchase "Forever Craps". Go read the book and you will see what I am doing.
larryyeager responds
Great discussion. I was fortunate enough to win money with Mr.Finesse on several recent occasions, including his 40 minute masterpiece.
The five count on other (less) controlled shooters would have saved me a bit. The five count on me would have saved even more, although I had a 22 and 33 last week at Mohegan.
As to CFers, I have managed to stay within +/- 100 on recent trips using the 5 count and minimum place bets (22-in or 24 6 and 8. I also think that the dice have been somewhat favorable and that I should be doing better. I am considering moving to 44 or 66 inside for semi-styled shooters. I am also trying to figure out when and how to get in on the 4/10, if a shooter starts hitting them.
On Sunday, one CFer went 41 rolls. Because of the low start, a conservative entry, and lots of non-paying numbers, I made less that I expected when I counted the rolls. With a late entry, it is easy to get caught with most of your profits on the table, even with a slow progression. I understand bankroll preservation, but taking advantage of good (random) rolls must be a key factor in long term success. Any wisdom would be appreciated.
I recently started bringing a small notebook to the table and record the throws. It helps me objectively review the session and to improve my money management game. It also helps me shoot — BECAUSE I RECORD WHEN I PRACTICE! One other benefit of recording is that it gives me something to do during the five count. I pay myself a psychic bonus when I write +0 for the large number of shooters who cannot count to 5.
Alex responds
I like Frank’s idea as well. If you use the 5-Count on yourself and then half-bet the other shooters who actually do make it through the 5-Count, you will make money on the hot shooters and you’ll not take a drubbing when a shooter goes down on the 6, 7 or 8 count.
I do think at a certain point you will want to press your bets on a chicken feeder who is having a hot roll but I go along with Frank’s take on pressing that he wrote about in Beat the Craps Out of the Casinos. I go up slowly and cautiously.
Mr Finesse responds
When I walk up to a table I get right into the action!!!
Working the 5-count, watching the trend of the table, watching how the shooter grips and throws the dice and looking at how many chips the players have it the racks in front of them is being in the action. Is this a winning or losing table, are the players smiling?
My mind and eyes are working and paying attention until the dice come to me. This is being in the action as soon as I walk up to a table and put my cash on the table for casino chips.
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