The Diceman Cometh . . .

Good Morning Doc and Arose, Big Daddy Guy and I have been placing the inside numbers 5,6,8, and 9 early in a hand, looking for two hits, then reducing the place bets to one unit each. This brings us even with none of our "own" money at risk. With a third hit, we press the number that hits, and on a fourth hit, we take the profit. We then alternate the pull and press. An alternate is to place two units across all numbers then proceed as with the inside numbers. The downside is an early seven out that takes all of our initial place bets (a bummer!). The upside is we have four or six numbers working for us early in the hand with minimum risk. Like the commercial, it’s only weird if it doesn’t work. I like to protect myself at all times by minimizing risk. Don’t know if this is the best way, but would welcome your thoughts.

I like using a combination of Place/Come bets. If my number is 6 or 8 I Place the other for $12 and throw out a minimum Come bet. If it’s neither I place both. This second scenario gives me three numbers initially. Then with the first scenario if the 6/8 hits on the next bet the Come travels there, 2X odds, and I throw out another Come looking for three numbers covered.

Either way, after the second hit I look to expand out to four numbers after the second hit. After the third hit I look to the five number/bet and so on.

As far as pressing, I will alternate pressing and pulling after the third hit on any specific number that repeats. On come bets that means I’ll go from 2X to the lesser of Table max or 4X (remember some of the houses here in Colorado offer $100 max Odds regardless of the flat bet, $5/$100). Doubling the odds on every other hit or up to table max.

Haven’t got myself into a situation where I need more than this yet.

I like to start with 2x odds on any point that is not a 6 or eight. If 6 or 8 is poiint then $30 odds.
I also place the 6 and 8 for $30 each. I want to collect 3 hits any combination. On hit 4 rack the green from
the 6 or 8 place any other number for $10. If a $10 place hits press it on the first hit. The idea is to get a bet working or all numbers. When that is acomplished every number that hits get a press and money going in the rack. The 6 and 8 go $30, $42, $60, and up in $30 units fro there. The 5 ,9,4 and 10 go $10, $25 and up $25 units from there. I have played both come and odds and the place bets as discribed. I understand the math says the come and odds has a lower HA. With quite a lot of win loss data in the record book the place bets work better for me. I can’t say why that is. Maybe because it is simple and automatic once up and running. My mind is on the shot, the bets take care of themselves.

JRC

"Diceman" wrote: The Diceman Cometh . . .

Good Morning Doc and Arose, Big Daddy Guy and I have been placing the inside numbers 5,6,8, and 9 early in a hand, looking for two hits, then reducing the place bets to one unit each. This brings us even with none of our "own" money at risk. With a third hit, we press the number that hits, and on a fourth hit, we take the profit. We then alternate the pull and press. An alternate is to place two units across all numbers then proceed as with the inside numbers. The downside is an early seven out that takes all of our initial place bets (a bummer!). The upside is we have four or six numbers working for us early in the hand with minimum risk. Like the commercial, it’s only weird if it doesn’t work. I like to protect myself at all times by minimizing risk. Don’t know if this is the best way, but would welcome your thoughts.

Diceman, by doing this regression stuff you are costing yourself money. I know your throw and it is good and I know you are playing with an edge so by regressing you are just costing your self money.

Go with placing the 6/8 for a little more money, eliminate the placing of the 5/9 (remember the 4% HA) and throw out a comebet. Try this at home with chips, I think you will find that you will be doing much better

Dominator

Dom is right on. The 5 and 9 have just too high a vig. If you place(buy) the 4 and/or 10 be sure the vig is paid on wins only and for $25 as the vig is much lower this way.

As Skinny says—play smart bet the math.

Doc

I like to go with my feeling . If the dice don’t feel right I wait a little longer then normal.
Good Rolling. 😀 😀

In Tunic, most of the casinos will let you buy the 5/9 at $20 with th vig only paid on wins. Don’t remember what that makes the Ha to be, but it is less thn the 4% mentioned.

Noah

"ACPA" wrote: In Tunic, most of the casinos will let you buy the 5/9 at $20 with th vig only paid on wins. Don’t remember what that makes the Ha to be, but it is less thn the 4% mentioned.

Noah

It would be 2%.

I have several ways that i play they depend on how the dice are acting.

Now if i am playing to make max dollars i just straight come bet on myself place the 6an8 for 24 when i hit one of them i go to full odds 50 if i throw anything elsei take full odds.

after any two collects of any number i will place it for 25 or 30 on the place bets i will press them 50 percent of what they are everytime and collect the come bets.

I will continue to come bet until i have all number coverd at this point i will no longer make come bets and convert all bets as they hit to place bets, if i have a 10 dollar come bet with full odds and it hits i place it for 75same with the 5 or 9 six and eight 120.

Now if my throw is not quite qhat i want it to be there is many different ways i play

I do many different things with my pressing, but one thing that everyone should do is to practice their betting at home during practice. This way you will just bet in muscle memory.

Have a game plan before you go to the tables

Dominator

After a conversation with BTK I’m trying to ween myself from place bets (6&8 to start. If the rolls gets into the 20’s every number was fair game) and going with only come bets. So far (at home) I’m liking the results. I get a little protection from and early 7, and I get on higher HA numbers I normally wouldn’t place (4,5,9,10).

My question is how would someone press come bets if you are already playing max odds? On a $5 table would you just make the next come $10 until you get to max odds again? This would be great for an Off/On but might suck if it goes to a number you’re not hitting.

With place bets, it was simple, full press or up a unit. More options/choices with come bets. What would be to best way to get more money up on the table with come betting? Let’s assume a $5 table with 3-4-5 odds.

"sevenout" wrote: What would be to best way to get more money up on the table with come betting? Let’s assume a $5 table with 3-4-5 odds.

Here is how I like to do it.

The Big Skinny

"sevenout" wrote:
My question is how would someone press come bets if you are already playing max odds? On a $5 table would you just make the next come $10 until you get to max odds again? This would be great for an Off/On but might suck if it goes to a number you’re not hitting.

I would go with the same odds to begin with. $10 flat bet and $10 odds. If it doesn’t hit your only down $5. If it hits you can press or not. Then keep going up to the next level.

Where I play you can leave your winning bet up ,increase your contract bet to what ever level you want and take odds up to the max allowed ( in my case it is 10x ) on your new contract bet.
No new come bet needed.

Alligator Rose and Doc usually play a $10 table (or a $5 table we take $10 anyway) and take 1/2 the max odds as if we were on a 3,4,5 table. Two reasons for this: 1. bank roll and 2. we have some "wiggle" roo to slowly increase our bets keeping the amount of dollars on the table a little lower. When we get to max odds on several numbers (usually 3 or 4) then incease our come/pass line bets and add the odds ojn wins. We usually go to a $20 come/pass line bet. If we begin to hit just one or two numbers and they have max odds we will place the that number if it is 6 or 8 or buy the 4 and 10 if the vig is paid on wins only. That keeps the house vig below 2%. Should be hit a 5 or 9 with max odds and it is an off and on we will probably press the 6 and/or 8. Remember at this point we are probably at a $20 come bet so we may have a little "wiggle" room.

If we get into a really big roll we will eventually increase the base come/pass line bet usually we jump to $35 and if it really gets to be a big roll we will go to $50. You get the idea.

It works for us. We tried to go to only place/buy bets when well into a good roll but the high vig on the 5 and 9 is too high so something on the order of what was above seems to work best.

Most importantly we are comfortable with what we do and we practice it at home so that it is a natural move to increase.

Our $.02 worth.

Doc and Alligator Rose

The Big Skinny is a great way to press comebets. I will also begin to place bets so that I have comebets and place bets on the same number. Now with both a hit gives you two wins … I will still put out a comebet to be off and on, and then I can press my place bets very easily.

Since my ankle injury I have become predominately a come bet player.

Dominator

The Diceman Cometh . . .

Dom, thanks for the reminder and the suggestion. I’ll do it.

No problem!

Love the question about betting. Some people just think that if they learn the throw they will have it all and win money. This is just not the case.

Remember you need all these three:

1. Learn the GTC Controlled throw
2. Calculate your edge
3. Bet into you edge

None of the above is more important than the other. Sometimes we forget this, but without proper betting on yourself and on others you will still not be a WINNER at craps.

This is the main reason I say that only 10% of our students ever really make it. They will practice the throw and become pretty good, but they lose it all in the betting.

I can tell you this, we are going to stress betting and ways to bet at all our seminars!

Dominator

Dom is right about betting into the edge that you will develop using the GTC controlled throw.
I want to interject an idea that I think is very important. After you develop the GTC throw you need to see what bets you will be able to beat. After you know which bets you can beat then you can decide how much of your bankroll to bet when you have the dice.
Remember you will never beat the game betting on random throws so you need to limit your exposure to random throws. It is a lot of fun betting on a hot hand so my recommendation to players has always been to do two things. #1 use the 5 count to limit your exposure and #2 use a betting plan that you are comfortable with and stick to your plan. You will be a long term loser no matter how you bet these hands so have a plan that you can live with that keep you on a hot roll and protect your bankroll.
I would like to stress that you need to make a plan and stick to it because you never want to second guess yourself. This also goes for your rolls too There will always be times where any betting plan will fail miserably and others times where they work great. There isn’t any plan that works for random throws, they will always lose in the long term so make sure that you understand this and can live with the plan that you have decided to use and remember that you are betting these rolls for cover and to have some fun.
I think that It can be fun to see how others like to bet on random throws since everyone has their own ideas. I use come bets since that is usually more fun for me. How about you?
BTK

I hope everyone has read and re-read Billy’s comments

Dominator

I think that a lot of my strategy behind betting is related to what and how I am throwing. I set the 3V and try to roll a 6 or 8 on the come out and if so I place 12 on the other and double odds on the point. Then I place the 5 and 9 for one unit. I tend to throw a lot of 5’s and nine’s so those bets work for me.

If I am rolling well as my bets hit I go up a unit twice then when it hits the third time I collect the win and part of the base bet and go back down to one unit and start over. If I am not rolling particularly well I make sure I get all of my money back from initial hits before I start going up on any of my bets.

I hate leaving money on the table but if it’s the house’s money so be it as I have my original bets and some of their money.

I normally set for the hardways and I hate to admit it but If I am doing well and rolling hard numbers I place the hardways for a buck and press it once before I collect. I still get a kick out of hitting one of those ploopy, high vig, crazy bets that I know is a no-no. You just can’t take life too seriously "all" of the time.

"RichardM" wrote: I think that a lot of my strategy behind betting is related to what and how I am throwing. I set the 3V and try to roll a 6 or 8 on the come out and if so I place 12 on the other and double odds on the point. Then I place the 5 and 9 for one unit. I tend to throw a lot of 5’s and nine’s so those bets work for me.

If I am rolling well as my bets hit I go up a unit twice then when it hits the third time I collect the win and part of the base bet and go back down to one unit and start over. If I am not rolling particularly well I make sure I get all of my money back from initial hits before I start going up on any of my bets.

I hate leaving money on the table but if it’s the house’s money so be it as I have my original bets and some of their money.

I normally set for the hardways and I hate to admit it but If I am doing well and rolling hard numbers I place the hardways for a buck and press it once before I collect. I still get a kick out of hitting one of those ploopy, high vig, crazy bets that I know is a no-no. You just can’t take life too seriously "all" of the time.

Placing the 5/9 is just a bad idea. You would never see me place the 5 or 9 initially on my roll. If you want those numbers use a come bet to get there to cut down the house edge.

I don’t believe in signature numbers. A number might be rolled on that particular throw, but on your next throw it is usually a different number.

Unless you hit a ton of primary numbers, setting the 3V is not good also to try to get the 6/8. Those numbers only come if you hit primaries a lot

Dominator

Dom

got a question for you, i am sure you have a good answer.

If i use the hard way set with 5’s top and 4’s back at me if my throw is
good and 1 of the dice is only 1 face off perfect i get a 5/3, 5/4 or 3/5 or 4/5
now if i use the 3 v set and the thing happens i get a 3/6 0r 3/1 or 5/3 or 2/3
now as long as i stay on axis it seems to change some in that with the hardway set
i can be on axis and get a 4/3, 3/4 or 5/2 2/5 with the 3v set i can only get the
3/4 or 4/3, now i understand no one is on axis all the time i sure as heck am not,
but i seem to have more consistant decent rolls 8-15 with the 3 v than i do with the
hardways.

Gman