did you post a second come bet or do you just have the one working?

It has been my experience that when a come bet is hit and won and on that winning roll there is not come bet, the bet comes down and you collect both the bet and the win. If you want to keep that number working on the next roll, you must place the same number (or buy the number in the case of the 4 ot 10) if you want the number to continue. However if you had a second come bet working you would have an "off and on" as the come bet just won is replaced with the new come bet you had in the come section of the playing lay out.

Now if you have a come bet win and it comes down and you wish to continue that number as a come bet without going through the come line, it is called a "put" bet. Generally you have to tell the dealer you want to do this. The house advantage is much larger since you are not going through the come line where on the next roll you have a 2 to 1 advantage with the 7 and 11 (8 ways to win) vrs the 2, 3 & 12 (4 ways to lose) on the come bet. I don’t know the exact house advantage of the "put" bet vrs a regualr come bet, but it is my understanding that the "put bet" house advantage is much higher.

As Skinny says you always want to bet the math—in other words you want to bet only the bets with the lowest house edge. So a put bet is not good wager.

Hope that helps. I hope you get additional information on your question.

Doc and Alligator Rose

Following is a post that has a lot of information about "Put Bets"

http://www.goldentouchcasino.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=861

Alot of times when you have come bets up and the point is made then a come out 7 the dealer will ask if you want to put up your come bets again so no different I can see. But may be wrong.
Good Rolling. 😀 😀

John:

I do not think you should leave the bet up (put bet) because of the amount of odds you are betting. If you had the bankroll to put out more odds, say 5x, then it may start making sense. Problem is the bankroll will kill you.

One more thing that you probably already know, on a $10 table, you are severely increasing the HA by only taking single odds. You may be better off just buying that 4 for a quarter if the vig is paid after the hit.

Sounds like the house is sort of pitching the idea of converting your come bets into place bets once the number hits. I would point out that with 3, 4, 5 x odds tables, the place bets on the 5,6,8, & 9 pay the same under certain circumstances. A come bet on the 9 for example will consist of $5 flat and $20 odds. It pays $35 when it hits. A $25 place bet on the 5 or 9 pays the same $35 when you hit it. By allowing a made come bet to stand ( and assuming you are not in an off and on situation), you do not get to temporarily protect your odds from a 7 on the next roll. For example if you have a Natural 5 on the board $5 flat/$20 odds and you hit it, you get to put $35 in the rack and recover your $20 odds. If you leave $5 coming and 7 out at that point, you collect $5 for the come bet and have kept your previous odds. The substance of the question is kind of like fencing with windmills, because you can already choose to convert a hit come bet into a place bet. In other words, you can already do what they are asking you if you want to do. I suspect they are doing what all casinos do. You may just be misunderstanding them. Personally, I imagine the house benefits from turning a come bet into a place bet. Somebody like Skinny would have the math on that.

Alamo

Alamo Tx is correct. The house does benefit by converting a come bet that comes down into a place bet. They benefit even more by converting it into a put bet. Pass/Come bets with as little as double odds have a HA of 0.606%. There is no place bet that has a HA as low as that. Even with single odds the HA is 0.848%, still lower than any place bet.

But place bet on the 6/8 (1.52% HA) or buy bets on the 4/10 (1.67% HA on $20 and 1.33% HA on $25) when the vig is collected on a win only are still good bets with a reasonably low HA. Place bets on the 5/9 (4% HA) or buy bets on the 4/10 (4.76% HA on $20 and 3.85% HA on $25) when the vig is collected up front carry a high HA and should be avoided.

However, if you are rolling well on a particular hand and have made a sufficient profit on that hand then converting a come bet that comes down to a place bet is not a bad way to go if you want to stay up on a particular number. But never convert it to a put bet unless you are able to take enough in odds to make the HA lower than for the place bet. In general the odds have to be greater than 5X to make a put bet the better way to go.

Here is a question about betting that I am confused about. Why is a buy bet on the 4 or 10 a better bet than placing the 5 or 9? The 5/9 can come up 4 ways versus 3 ways for the 4/10. Thanks in advance

Hi Kingfisher. The buy on the 4 and 10 have a house advantage of 1.67% for a $20 bet and 1.33% for a $25 bet when the vig is paid on a win.
The 5 and 9 have a very high house advantage of 4%. Even though there is one more way to hit the 5 and 9, that does not make up for the high house advantage on that bet.

Goddess

Thanks Goddess – Is this correct, the vig on 5/9 is 4% and on 4/10 is 6.67% for rolling purposes but for betting purposes do not bet on 5/9, instead buy the 4/10? Thanks again

Try looking at THEN and NOW post that I brought back up.

My question to you JohnB, is the bet that the casino is allowing you to keep up still a come bet or does the casion tell you it now become a put bet?

Kingfisher, Goddess is right … it is always the math and the math will set you free! Always bet small house edge bets.

Remember it takes three things to win at this game
1. learn a controlled throw
2. Know if you are shooting with an edge and what that edge is
3. ONLY bet into your edge!

Dominator

They allow me to keep up the come bet, it is not a put bet. I can press it, go up one unit and/or increase my odds or contract bet to any level I want.

If they allow you to keep up your come bet up without going thru the come that is a put bet. It is a bad bet unless the odds are greater than 5X. If you want to stay on that number make a place bet instead.

Look at what happens with 3-4-5X odds.

A $5 come bet with 3-4-5X odds pays $35 on each number. If you use buy/place bets instead for the same amount of money here is what you get:

4/10 – $20 buy pays $40 less $1 vig for $39
5/9 – $25 place pays $35
6/8 – $30 place pays $35

So you get more money on the 4/10 and the same amount on the 5/6/8/9.

But the $5 base bet on your put bets are contract bets and they are working on future come out rolls after you make a point. You lose the $5 base bet with a come out 7, getting only your odds returned to you. Your place bets do not work on the come out so they are not vulnerable to a 7 on future come out rolls.

A come bet is a different matter entirely. You have a 2-1 edge with the 7/11 vs. 2/3/12 when you make the come bet. You have a 2-1 chance of winning your come bet when you first make it. When you do a put bet by leaving your come bet up without going thru the come, you lose the opportunity to win the base bet with a 2-1 advantage. But it is still a contract bet and vulnerable to being lost on future come out rolls with a 7 vs being won by rolling the number on future come out rolls.

Skinny as always is RIGHT ON!

Dom

Great post, Great information
Thanks

"Skinny" wrote:

But the $5 base bet on your put bets are contract bets and they are working on future come out rolls after you make a point. You lose the $5 base bet with a come out 7, getting only your odds returned to you. Your place bets do not work on the come out so they are not vulnerable to a 7 on future come out rolls.

A come bet is a different matter entirely. You have a 2-1 edge with the 7/11 vs. 2/3/12 when you make the come bet. You have a 2-1 chance of winning your come bet when you first make it. When you do a put bet by leaving your come bet up without going thru the come, you lose the opportunity to win the base bet. But it is still a contract bet and vulnerable to being lost on future come out rolls.

But wouldn’t you win the contract portion if you roll that number on the comeout?

"sevenout" wrote:

But wouldn’t you win the contract portion if you roll that number on the comeout?

Yes. I think the point I was trying to make was not clear enough in the way I worded it.

I edited the post above so that it reads differently now. Please let me know if it is clear (and accurate) now.

Very clear to us Skinny!

Dominator

We are going to spend much more time at the classes discussing betting. The betting is as important as throwing the dice if you want to make money at the tables!

Dominator

This weekend there is a meeting with all the instructors on how we are going to address betting

Dominator

I have yet to be in a casino that takes the vig on the 4 and 10 win. Am I correct that if the vig is taken on the buy, don’t bet on the 4 and 10? Thanks, Set44 😀

Here is the House Advantage (HA) for a buy on the 4 or 10.

[pre]Buy the 4/10 HA if you pay Up Front HA if you pay the vig on the win only

$20 4.76% 1.67%

$25 3.85% 1.33%

$30 3.23% 1.11%

$39 2.50% 0.85%[/pre]

I think you can see from the above chart, there is a very high HA when the vig is collected up front on the buy. But if they only collect the vig on the win, it is a decent wager. Best to use come bets to get up on the 4/10 if the casino collects the vig on the buy.

Great work as always Skinny!

Dom